3T Race max vs Trek Checkpoint

[spud]

Curious if anyone knows of a frame that combines the design elements of the Race Max (aero shaping) with the geometry of the Checkpoint? My old gravel bike has a 120 stem on it to make it fit, and the result is pig slow handling at the front end. I borrowed an Open Up with a 100mm stem, and the handling on the road was great, though the bike was too small. The Checkpoint has a long top tube and front center, allowing the use of a 90mm stem, which I think is really on point, and it has down tube storage, which is a great feature. The Race Max has relatively low reach and high stack, and I'm leery about using another long stem on a gravel bike (I use a long stem on the road bike and have no qualms about that). Anything out there with the aero of a Race Max and the front end geo & storage of a Checkpoint?

[stalkersk]

I got Ultra wirh 120mm stem and handling is great, very sharp. Racemax has been updated with longer chainstays, which match Ultra. I tested racemax with 100mm stem and handling was very similar. It's very capable road bike and playful gravel bike. Comparing to Time ADHX 45 or Ridley Kanzo Fast with sinilar fit, 3T handles best, it's most agile of the bunch.

[Weltverloren]

Among the really aero-optimized gravel race bikes, I think the Ostro Gravel is the longest in terms of reach - with numbers comparable to that of the Checkpoint for every given avaialble stack height.

Keep in mind though that the reduced steering input you'll have with a shorter stem will come at the cost of a generally less nimble bike due to the increased front-center. Like stalkersk said, I wouldn't rule out shorter bikes like the Exploro, Aspero etc. if you're after snappy, roadbike-like handling. Among all the gravel bikes I've tried, I actually felt the Checkpoint was one of the more sluggishly handling (but stable) rides, probably because in addition to the longer front-center, it also has longer chainstays. The overall wheelbase of a 56 Exploro is almost four centimeters shorter than that of a 56 Checkpoint (which is a whole lot).

Personally, if it's agility (rather than stability) you're after, I think these things are more crucial than stem length. Your muscle memory will take care of compensating for stem length (provided the bike is a good fit at the overall reach), but a bike's turning circle will always be determined by the wheelbase regardless of how used you are to it. : )
Of course, if you know what you're after, I didn't mean to overstep and wise off. ; )

[spud]

^ not at all, I appreciate the alternative viewpoint. Fact is I don't buy bikes very often, I usually ride them into the ground so I haven't sampled that many. That said, the light front end of the Open Up was a bit of a revelation, it could be that my bike simply has too much trail, or that the 3T bars have much more than 80mm of reach, compounding the problem. Once up to speed it's fine, but climbing out the saddle, the front end feels like a pig.

In any case, while I am a believer in using the right tool for the job, having a "do it all" bike for away-from-home adventures is very appealing.

[stalkersk]

This IMO again highly depends on components selection. I have Vision Metron 5D on my 3T, previously had hyperstem with Zipp SL70 XPLR and later Prime Primavera Aero handlebars. The frontend response and feel changed a lot going to the Metron combo. Feels much stiffer and direct. I even swapped bikes with friend who has the Racemax Italia with 3T carbon bars and that bike was much more comfier/muted on frontend.

The Time is quite long at the back and stretched at the front, and feels like it wants to stand back as soon as you lean it. Looking at Checkpoint geometry, that would IMO feel very similar. Long bike at rear will always feel more sluggish, especially when you push it in corner.