And is this grey crank newer version
New D-Ace ?
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BdaGhisallo
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Don't know when a new Dura Ace update will be coming. Have heard various dates in 2008, but who knows.
As for the 7801 vs 7800, 7801 is a newer component and the 01 denotes that there were minor running changes/improvements made to the component since the 7800 series of components was launched for the 2004 product year.
As for the 7801 vs 7800, 7801 is a newer component and the 01 denotes that there were minor running changes/improvements made to the component since the 7800 series of components was launched for the 2004 product year.
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That's just the light on a 7800 crank reflecting weirdly.
The new groupset will probably be 7900 or something, the difference between 7800 and 7801 is just model variants.
The new groupset will probably be 7900 or something, the difference between 7800 and 7801 is just model variants.
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lancejohnson
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there has been rampant speculation, but very few people have any idea exactly what from the broad spectrum of prototypes will make it into the actual line yet. i have talked to a lot of people about it, and as of now i have no idea whether the group will be carbon - but it should incorporate some carbon based on the xtr that was released - have a finite adjustment of the front derailleur, or be 12 speed. i imagine that we'll all know around tour time when people begin testing the groups...
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"Organization is for the simple-minded, the Genius controls the chaos." - Jens
"Organization is for the simple-minded, the Genius controls the chaos." - Jens
lancejohnson wrote:there has been rampant speculation, but very few people have any idea exactly what from the broad spectrum of prototypes will make it into the actual line yet. i have talked to a lot of people about it, and as of now i have no idea whether the group will be carbon - but it should incorporate some carbon based on the xtr that was released - have a finite adjustment of the front derailleur, or be 12 speed. i imagine that we'll all know around tour time when people begin testing the groups...
i dont use the 9 i have !
There have been some significant changes from the norm inside SIC lately. I can't give too much information, however I will say a few things.
1. Mechanical DA group, does not get redesigned for 08, that project was put on hold, though the development still continues. 08 Dura Ace will receive only some very minor changes. However, this is due in part to semantics.
2. As was mentioned that crank in the picture is not hard anodized, but rather that is a function of the light. However, dark anodized Shimano will be seen soon, and no, you won't have to wait for Interbike to see it.
3. As for the numerical naming system used by Shimano. A 3 digit number is MTB, 4 digit is Road. On road for example, the first digit is the level of the group, 5=105, 6=Ultegra, 7=Da. The second digit is generation, this number changes when major changes happen to the group. For Example, 7700 to 7800 was a major change. The last digits are altered when small changes are made. Creating 7701, 7801. Or a 3 for a triple, 7803 DA Triple. So the short is yes 7801 is newer than 7800, the 1 marks a small change in the design.
1. Mechanical DA group, does not get redesigned for 08, that project was put on hold, though the development still continues. 08 Dura Ace will receive only some very minor changes. However, this is due in part to semantics.
2. As was mentioned that crank in the picture is not hard anodized, but rather that is a function of the light. However, dark anodized Shimano will be seen soon, and no, you won't have to wait for Interbike to see it.
3. As for the numerical naming system used by Shimano. A 3 digit number is MTB, 4 digit is Road. On road for example, the first digit is the level of the group, 5=105, 6=Ultegra, 7=Da. The second digit is generation, this number changes when major changes happen to the group. For Example, 7700 to 7800 was a major change. The last digits are altered when small changes are made. Creating 7701, 7801. Or a 3 for a triple, 7803 DA Triple. So the short is yes 7801 is newer than 7800, the 1 marks a small change in the design.
Last edited by madcow on Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I suspect the 2008 change with be the introduction of Electronic Dura-ace. While the current group will continue to get minor running changes. Personally, I doubt we will see that carbon/ti xtr ring showing up on Dura-ace because the purpose for that change really does not apply. Maybe just further refinements to the hollow forging process on the crank to shave even more weight... I couldn't see them doing a full redesign while trying to get the electronic out too.
edit- right after I posted I see someone with inside information confirmed some of my suspicions. Sweet!
edit- right after I posted I see someone with inside information confirmed some of my suspicions. Sweet!
I wish Shimano would do three things with DA and then it would trounce Campag and SRAM on VFM grounds I think 
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- hide the front cables: I don't like hanging my dirty laundry out in public and don't see the need for these - I know people say the routing helps shifting, but it's not as though the shifting on Campag and SRAM is poor!
- reduce the size of the hoods. They seem designed with much larger primates in mind. If I ever need to lend my bike to a silverback mountain gorilla they would be a boon, but otherwise those big guns are just too much.
- realease a compact. The current FC chainset is far too heavy to compete.
These are the three reasons why my next group will not be Shimano.
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- hide the front cables: I don't like hanging my dirty laundry out in public and don't see the need for these - I know people say the routing helps shifting, but it's not as though the shifting on Campag and SRAM is poor!
- reduce the size of the hoods. They seem designed with much larger primates in mind. If I ever need to lend my bike to a silverback mountain gorilla they would be a boon, but otherwise those big guns are just too much.
- realease a compact. The current FC chainset is far too heavy to compete.
These are the three reasons why my next group will not be Shimano.
I personaly dont like shifters but they are little bit cool and those litlle plastic levers on brake calipers on DA group.. My favorite thing about DA is looks tehnologicly advanced and its bulky and has meat on it AND WHAT A HELL I LIKE ALSO SHIFTERS BUT PLEASEEEEE MOVE THOSE LITLLE PLASITC LEVERS FROM BRAKE CALIPERS
Last edited by TORRO on Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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BdaGhisallo
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Shimano have long recognized that many folks would like them to hide the shifter cables, as Campy does. They have resisted this for two reasons, I believe. One is that running cables under the bar tape inherently introduces more cable friction into the system. As it is now, a Shimano gear cable has a straight and smooth run until it gets to the rear derr cable loop. Shimano is about function to far greater extent than form.
And the second, and likely the most important, reason that they don't change the cable routing is simple marketing. When you see a pro in a race, you can instantly tell that he is riding Shimano from the shifter cable loops. The lack of them would tell you that he was on Campy, but from this year on, you will have to look closer to see if it's Campy or SRAM. Shimano riders are instantly recognizable and I don't think Shimano will want to lose that niche.
And the second, and likely the most important, reason that they don't change the cable routing is simple marketing. When you see a pro in a race, you can instantly tell that he is riding Shimano from the shifter cable loops. The lack of them would tell you that he was on Campy, but from this year on, you will have to look closer to see if it's Campy or SRAM. Shimano riders are instantly recognizable and I don't think Shimano will want to lose that niche.
A lot of parts in the Dura Ace group got re-designated as 7801 this year. It's not reflecting changes in the actual components, but rather changes in the accompanying documentation, packaging, and how Shimano distributes them (they get different SKUs at that point and Shimano wants to be sure stores can tell the difference). Sure, there's a little bit of late-in-the-model-year marketing going on to convince people to buy new stuff, but all parts are interchangeable, all dimensions are the same, and nothing is actually changed between them.
Dura Ace groups come out historically one year after XTR and are scheduled for commercial release in 2008. That means we'll be seeing them widely at the Tour where Shimano rolls out their marketing. Up til then, Shimano is very secretive and disseminates a lot of disinformation. Last time around they were talking about 12 cog cassettes, electronics, you name it. They actually put riders on 12 cog cassettes in some of the mid-season races to try them out (just like they've done with the electronic groups as well.)
There are still some fairly significant limitations to electronic components. Shimano has also realized that more than ten cogs is probably overkill, at least without exacting a redesign of frame dimensions (which isn't a good way to sell a lot of groups). Best informed gossip has been that Shimano has finally bowed to using a lot of carbon, but the pro teams like Shimano for its foolproof design -- as in most components, carbon doesn't really make it lighter. But all of that is gossip and Shimano is as secretive as it gets. Remember that in '04, the first definitive sight of DA-10 was when Lance Armstrong was on the cover of Sports Illustrated just before the tour, and the bike he was leaning on just happened to have the new group. It took 2-3 days before someone cottoned on to the equipment behind him, and then of course it was talked to death.
Dura Ace groups come out historically one year after XTR and are scheduled for commercial release in 2008. That means we'll be seeing them widely at the Tour where Shimano rolls out their marketing. Up til then, Shimano is very secretive and disseminates a lot of disinformation. Last time around they were talking about 12 cog cassettes, electronics, you name it. They actually put riders on 12 cog cassettes in some of the mid-season races to try them out (just like they've done with the electronic groups as well.)
There are still some fairly significant limitations to electronic components. Shimano has also realized that more than ten cogs is probably overkill, at least without exacting a redesign of frame dimensions (which isn't a good way to sell a lot of groups). Best informed gossip has been that Shimano has finally bowed to using a lot of carbon, but the pro teams like Shimano for its foolproof design -- as in most components, carbon doesn't really make it lighter. But all of that is gossip and Shimano is as secretive as it gets. Remember that in '04, the first definitive sight of DA-10 was when Lance Armstrong was on the cover of Sports Illustrated just before the tour, and the bike he was leaning on just happened to have the new group. It took 2-3 days before someone cottoned on to the equipment behind him, and then of course it was talked to death.
sawyer wrote:I wish Shimano would do three things with DA and then it would trounce Campag and SRAM on VFM grounds I think
- hide the front cables: I don't like hanging my dirty laundry out in public and don't see the need for these - I know people say the routing helps shifting, but it's not as though the shifting on Campag and SRAM is poor!
- reduce the size of the hoods. They seem designed with much larger primates in mind. If I ever need to lend my bike to a silverback mountain gorilla they would be a boon, but otherwise those big guns are just too much.
- realease a compact. The current FC chainset is far too heavy to compete.
then you have Campy.
Variety is good. I don't use Shimano, but it's good that there is an option.
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Dura Ace parts got sometimes little changes modifications etc.
which are not getting told to the consumer to be hounest you won't even notice.
for so far I am told no new Shimano Dura Ace for 2008.
which are not getting told to the consumer to be hounest you won't even notice.
for so far I am told no new Shimano Dura Ace for 2008.
Chris Kuiper
www.KuiperTrading.com
www.KuiperTrading.com
