“Different” new Madone (2023)

[Nickldn]

The crux of the matter is why would anyone actively choose to buy an 'aero' bike like the Madone, which by its nature is heavier and less compliant (isoflow not withstanding), over an all rounder line the SL8 or SuperSix, if there is no difference in aero performance?

Trek will need to convince customers, while Specialized and Cannondale are pushing at an open door (or perhaps open wallet).

Tour tests, while controlled, are not necessarily realistic. Humans aren’t just a set of legs. It’s clear with all the creative use of water bottles and race radios lately that shaping the airflow under the chest generally results in somewhere between 3-10% power savings at just 40km/h depending on the person.

But that is just a throwaway comment aka. Fear Uncertainty Doubt (FUD).

What I really want when I'm spending €12k+ on a new 'superbike' is certainly. For all its shortcomings Tour gives me that. It really has no peer.

It looks like some manufacturers have realised this and others not so much.

[TobinHatesYou]

The crux of the matter is why would anyone actively choose to buy an 'aero' bike like the Madone, which by its nature is heavier and less compliant (isoflow not withstanding), over an all rounder line the SL8 or SuperSix, if there is no difference in aero performance?

Trek will need to convince customers, while Specialized and Cannondale are pushing at an open door (or perhaps open wallet).

Tour tests, while controlled, are not necessarily realistic. Humans aren’t just a set of legs. It’s clear with all the creative use of water bottles and race radios lately that shaping the airflow under the chest generally results in somewhere between 3-10% power savings at just 40km/h depending on the person.

But that is just a throwaway comment aka. Fear Uncertainty Doubt (FUD).

What I really want when I'm spending €12k+ on a new 'superbike' is certainly. For all its shortcomings Tour gives me that. It really has no peer.

It looks like some manufacturers have realised this and others not so much.

The only certainty you have with a Tour test is values that don’t apply in the real world. I’m fairly certain having a torso means features like seatposts with deep aspect ratios are more important, and quite possibly even the IsoFlow hole. It’s clear the track cycling world is putting renewed emphasis on this section of the bike with the Look split seatpost and wider seatstay spacing.

Plus the rankings shift based on time vs yaw, so thin all-rounders might be favored at low yaw while bikes with deeper tubes may pull ahead at, say, 5-7deg yaw.

What it boils down to is you shouldn’t base your purchases on Tour’s aero rankings. Geometry, annoying design details (steerer stops, BB standard, cable routing), comfort, tire clearance, etc. matter more.

[GrassQ]

I like a lot the look of Madone, Its the most intesting looking "racebike".
For me as a potential buyer and average hobbycyclist, it is maybe " too much aerostatement" (In same category for me is Cervelo S5 and Scott Foil).

[Nickldn]

Plus the rankings shift based on time vs yaw, so thin all-rounders might be favored at low yaw while bikes with deeper tubes may pull ahead at, say, 5-7deg yaw.

This is the key issue and reason why aero bikes have deep tubes in the first place, leading to added weight and stiffness (less comfort).

Question is though how do off centre yaw angles affect slower riders, say up to 25mph (I understand the faster you go the more straight on air hits the bike)?

No one seems to answer this important question, so we're left guessing and aero bikes are becoming a niche in a post Venge world.

[GrassQ]

My guess is that in lower speeds/higher yaw angles aerogains are relatively bigger irl, but needed watts are also so low that it doesnt matter so much. For example Cervelo S5 with hadron 625, total aerodrag in 30 kmh is 20 watts and in 37,5 kmh 38 watts (swisside distribution).

[GrassQ]

Treks own aerodata/marketing data claims that new Madone vs old Madone, aerodifferences shows mainly after 7-8 degree yaw angles.
Trek tested with wholebody mannequin

https://blog.trekbikes.com/en/2022/06/3 ... for-speed/

[kolau]

How are these numbers disappointing? The overall weight is great for a pure aero bike. Plus the measured 207 watts are excelent, too.

These numbers are disappointing for a 2023 model. My 2019 Venge is just as aero +-1w and 400g lighter and if markethype is real the Sl8 will be more aero and almost 1kg lighter at a cheaper price.
The new Supersix smokes it aswell. Trek should focus less on Gimmicks and improve on the important metrics imo.

Weight difference with the same spec is roughly 500g, not 1 kg

Also Trek offers the same frameset and cockpit for all the srl models, so basically you can get the 105 spec with RSL wheels with project one and change the groupset spending a lot less than the msrp.





Enviado desde mi 21081111RG mediante Tapatalk

[cleanneon98]

Just as a follow-up TREK released the SL variant of the gen 7

SL7 with Ultegra di2, two piece cockpit and pro wheels $6500 USD
SL6 with 105 Di2, two piece cockpit and elite wheels $5500 USD

The gen 7 SL frame and builds, are the same weight or lighter than the outgoing gen 6 SLRs. To me it's pretty wild that you can get the new entry level model which at least on paper is the same weight (and presumably more aero than gen 6) for 3k less than what the old premium bike cost. Anyone find any aero testing on these new frames yet?

[Erwin]

What is the weight from a SLR size 54 with red team paint? I guess 1100-1150g and about 420g for the fork? Please can someone say if the handlebar is stiff or a noodle? I have read both in this thread.

[Stormtrooper]

If your asking about the Madone SLR one piece bar and stem. It's the same one that Mads Pederson uses on his bike and he's won plenty of races/ sprint with them, so I think it's stiff enough for you.

[spdntrxi]

^. super not proper way to analyze things

[cleanneon98]

^. super not proper way to analyze things

I don't see how it's any less proper than asking random people for their anecdotal evidence

[Nereth]

I think being able to feel a difference in stiffness between handlebar A and B is probably more objective than assuming that if [some bloke] can win [some race] then it must have a superlative combination of [some properties] that you are after.

Maybe he won because it's aero. Or light. Or something else about the bike is good. Or he's just strong and the bike sucks. Maybe it's NOT stiff but that works really well with Mads' pedalstroke?

But what Erwin in this thread wants to know is: Is it stiff? Because he wants a stiff handlebar. That's his prerogative. Simples.

[Stormtrooper]

OK So wouldn't you say that a professional rider is more in tune with his bike/equipment than your average weekend warrior, non pro?
If the bike/equipment was not satisfactory, then he would change it? Talk to his mechanic/ Trek about making it stiffer? Or change it? He is paid to win you know.
So what can we go by? Mads winning results/ podiums in Classics, Grand Tours, One day races on said bike/ handlebar should be more than enough to tell you how good it is. Or you can take reviews from random guys on the internet. I have a 2019 Trek Madone SLR with the integrated handle bar/ stem and I can't complain about stiffness, but what do I know. I'm just a weekend warrior too.

[spdntrxi]

^ no. I wouldn't say that it all.