Panaracer R'Air, Vred latex and Supersonics

[Hex]

I've ridden (with 25 Veloflex Master, Pro4 Endurance) the Vreds latex and they are nice.

I've got a Kinlin XR22t build (19C internal) and some tires are too tight to fit on that rim, making latex installation a bit risky.
I've been riding Pro Ones in tubeless form on this build. I like them, but I feel they are not as supple as the Veloflex with latex.

I'm going to try the new 28 Masters and want to replicate the feel of latex but with a less fragile tube.

I came across some people writing that Conti Supersonics are indistinguishable from latex because of their ultra thin build.
I have also come across some people writing about the Panaracer R'Air but most appear to discuss watt savings and not so much about the feel on the road.

I'm interested to hear about road feel from the Conti Supersonics/Pana R'Air with Veloflex clicnhers or similar cotton casing tires.

I understand the Conti Supersonics may be fragile to install, somewhat like latex, so leaning towards the Pana R'Air as they seem to offer latex-feel with butyl sturdyness...

[sungod]

the supersonic tubes are definitetly more fragile than 'normal' butyl tubes, easier to nip between bead/rim, though easier to mount than latex in that respect

i never noticed any difference in ride feel between supersonics and conti race light tubes, there's a weight saving and probably crr is better, but i gave up on using supersonics as the puncture rate was far higher than the race lights (this was with conti attack/force tyres)

they may even puncture more readily than latex as they are thin but lack the extreme stretchiness

[Hex]

the supersonic tubes are definitetly more fragile than 'normal' butyl tubes, easier to nip between bead/rim, though easier to mount than latex in that respect

i never noticed any difference in ride feel between supersonics and conti race light tubes, there's a weight saving and probably crr is better, but i gave up on using supersonics as the puncture rate was far higher than the race lights (this was with conti attack/force tyres)

they may even puncture more readily than latex as they are thin but lack the extreme stretchiness

Cool. Thanks for the feedback.
I am not too obsessed with Crr as opposed to a nicer, smoother ride.
I feel that a smooth supple ride will compensate the loss in W from running lighter tubes.
I actually thought that the ultra thin Supersonics may have had some suppleness akin to latex....alas...

[Marin]

I've ridden all 3 and I'd say that latex still rides best, but that's really hard to prove. I don't get many punctures on the road, so no difference there. R'Air might be slightly more robust, but I've stopped using them because the offered no advantage for me.

I run latex in all tubed wheels and have Supersonics in my tool pack.

[Hex]

I've ridden all 3 and I'd say that latex still rides best, but that's really hard to prove. I don't get many punctures on the road, so no difference there. R'Air might be slightly more robust, but I've stopped using them because the offered no advantage for me.

I run latex in all tubed wheels and have Supersonics in my tool pack.

I have somewhat expected that latex would still be the best. How close are the Panaracers to either? Closer to latex in feel or closer to butyl?

Thanks!

[Marin]

Really hard to tell. It's also been 2 years since I used them. They do hold air like butyl though, no pumping before every ride.

My 2 main bikes are tubeless now though...

[alcatraz]

Just get some talcum powder and rub some on the following three surfaces

1. tire inside
2. tube (shake inside a bag with powder)
3. rub some on the rim bed

Put some air in the tube before mounting it. Valve first then opposite end of the tube into the opposite side of the tire = reduces twists and slack issues.

Before pumping to high pressure check if the tube is pinched. Done properly it never gets pinched. Follow these steps and you can use even thinner tubes than supersonics. (I've had some poor quality latex tubes that are so thin in some places they are almost completely transparent. They hold fine though because they get so evenly seated and the stresses are minimized.)



If you get a puncture and the spare tube is sticky, you have some safety in that the talcum on the rim and tire will help that. If you just put talcum on one surface you lose that little extra help.

Not all rim beds are prepared for ultrathin tubes or latex. Make sure you check for sharp edges and sand/dremel away anything suspicious.

/a

[Hex]

Really hard to tell. It's also been 2 years since I used them. They do hold air like butyl though, no pumping before every ride.

My 2 main bikes are tubeless now though...

Right now I have 2/3 running tubeless.
Love the convenience and the self healing ability (orange seal worked for a small cut)
But I do miss the feel of latex on my previous favourite Pro4 set and the Maser Veloflex.

I think I will give the Panaracers a try.

I got a few Vredestein latex tubes around in case I don't like the Panaracers, but I'm hopeful I will.

[WheelNut]

What kind of rim tape are you using? If you've got thick cotton rim tape that might be making tire mounting a bit more difficult- switch to a thin plastic tape to reduce the mounting diameter slightly.

[pdlpsher1]

There are really no advantages with the R'Air. They are just butyl tubes with some fancy marketing put on them. See the attached test. They offer no weight nor RR advantage.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... acer-r-air

[dereksmalls]

Another option instead of the Panaracer R'Air tubes is the Panaracer Greenlite tubes. They're not too bad actually. On par weight wise

[Hex]

There are really no advantages with the R'Air. They are just butyl tubes with some fancy marketing put on them. See the attached test. They offer no weight nor RR advantage.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... acer-r-air

I've read that when looking info about the R'air. I'm OK with the same performance as butyl because I'm more interested in the feel of the ride. 6-8 watts loss (per pair) vs pro one tubeless is a bit nothing for me that i dont race. I may actually compensate that with some deep section wheels that I'm looking for!

Only here for those about the feel

[Hex]

Another option instead of the Panaracer R'Air tubes is the Panaracer Greenlite tubes. They're not too bad actually. On par weight wise

Very interesting. Have you tried those?
First time i hear about polyurethane tubes!

[akaspin]

Using Revoloop.white (just another plastic tubes). Loving them.

[alcatraz]

How is polyurethane compared to latex in terms of weight and rolling resistance?

/a