Dura Ace 9100/9150 noisier than 9000!

[nycebo]

Unfortunately, I installed the larger diameter jockey wheels AND a 12 speed chain at the same time. The result has been sublime silence. Candidly, I think it had to do with eliminating the longer teeth on the shimano stock jockey wheel. I'm about due for a new chain and will try the 11 speed again to see if still silent.

One thing I will say is that while shifting is acceptably good with the 12 speed chain, it's not as laser fast and smooth as the 11 speed. But if the 11 speed is noisy again, I'll go back to the 12 speed just for the quiet.

[alcatraz]

I'm using narrow/wide pulley wheels to help with shifting. Those teeth are usually longer too. I wonder if the drivetrain can be made quieter by shortening the teeth?

[justRideIt]

I have read somewhere that the newer Shimano 'Shadow' RD uses a higher cage tension than the previous 9000 RDs. Since you are hearing the noise on the gear combos where the chain tension is at the highest, you might try reducing the cage tension before you spend any money on the pullies. I believe the RD has three holes for three different tension settings, and the factory setting could be the one in the middle. There are some videos on YouTube on how to how to refurbish and service the Shimano tensioner. Perhaps the lower cage tension along with the 9070 pullies will do the trick. But try the tension adjustment first and see what it does.

Before spending money on the 9070 pulley wheels, I had some spare Ultegra Di2 6870 pulleys, which should be of same or almost similar geometry (definitely without the DA 9710 upper pulley's longer teeth).




I put these on the 9170 rear derailleur, and the result was not acceptable.
Due to the significantly higher tension the chain is held at compared to my Ultegra 6870 Di2 (without Shadow RD) when shifting bigger jumps like 27T to 30T, the upper pulley loses grip from the inside of the chain.
Chain slips over a couple of teeth of the upper pulley and then reengages. Makes for sloppy shifting and a "brrrrrrrrr" until properly engaged again.
Noise level was not reduced much either, if any.

So the pulley wheels with shorter teeth à la DA 9000 / 9070 are no option for me and I understand why Shimano opted for longer teeth.

I will look into your tip regarding cage tension. Thanks.

[Alex222]

I've got the 12 speed chain on order, so hoping that does the trick. Won't be posted, unfortunately, until the Berk Lupina I also ordered is back in stock.

[neffets70]

Sixth, and this will likely receive the most pushback, but on Beaver's and Steffen's recommendations, I decided to try a narrower 12-speed chain instead of the stock Dura-Ace one:
-Shimano XTR M9100 12-speed chain

I have to unbury this thread, since I'm having the same issues: very noisy Dura Ace 9170 on Tarmac SL6 Disc, especially when on big chainring in front and then especially on large cogs 3, 4 and 5.
Dura Ace CN 901 Chain, Dura Ace 11-30T cassette, both replaced at same time, so currently very new (~150km).
Maybe also needs some time to break in?

I recently switched from SRAM XG 1190 with SRAM RED Powerchain, which was running way more silent.

Can you give us some feedback about your experience with the 12-speed chain on the 11-speed groupset?
Any chain drops in front or rear?

As a first step I'll try replacing the jockey wheels by the Dura Ace 9070 series (which do not have the longer teeth).

I have the same setup as you and had the same problems...only the swap to the CN-M9100 brought the solution (without swapping the pulleys). I have been using the chain for over 5,500 km now, it is not yet at the wear limit, still quiet and I had no problems with chain sucks, falling off chains or something like that. The shifting performance is the same as with the originally mounted CN-HG901-11 - but I have adjusted the complete shifting system after the chain exchange (according to Shimano's manual for the R9150 series).

Greetings Steffen

[nycebo]

Steffen, that's a great data point. Thanks for sharing your experience. Makes me leary to try the 11 speed chain again. But I'll do it on the name of science...and for posterity.

[justRideIt]

Reporting back in, hope this helps others: when I switched cassettes from SRAM XG 1190 11-30T to Dura Ace 11-30T, I put on the new Dura Ace cassette "dry", i.e. without any grease, neither on the freehub body nor the cassette, to not attract too much dirt back there.

Seems for my combination of Roval CLX50's freehub + 11-30 T cassette this was promoting quite a lot of the noise.
Since I've applied grease on the freehub body and on the inside of the spiders holding the 5 largest cogss, the bike has quieted down significantly.
Also >300 additional kilometers breaking in the new chain + cassette.

It's fine for me now, thanks for all the helpful points in this thread.

[Gingerflash]

Hello,
About three weeks ago I fitted a full, new, 9100 groupset to my SWorks Tarmac, SL6. I initially fitted a Wipperman chain which had been used for about 300km. It just would not mesh with the top jockey wheel at all. Completely unusable. I fitted the DA chain and it worked but the drivetrain was noisy as hell, pretty much across the whole cassette although it was much better in the small chainring.

I fitted a new mech hanger. Made no difference.

Second ride, my chain came off the inside of the chain set. Then it fell off the outside. Shifting was perfect and everything seemed adjusted correctly.
I started to think I had a bad mech, maybe bent. I questioned my chainline (Praxisworks OSBB converter).

Then I read this thread.

I switched both 9100 jockey wheels for the slightly worn ones of my old 9000 mech.

SILENCE! Whoop!

Before spending any serious money, I suggest people swap that tall-toothed top jockey for a traditional smoother one.

It fixed it for me.

Thanks all.
Richard

[nycebo]

Rowing back after replacing my written 12 speed Shimano chain with the standard 11 speed Shimano Dura Ace chain. Still silent. As mentioned above, the solution wasn't a new chain but new jockey wheels without those toothpick teeth. Shifting is back to exceptional.

[beanbiken]

Hmmm, I run the SRAM red 1190 cassette with DI2 9070 and it shifts excellent, but I can’t get the 1190 to play nice on my other bike with 9150...... I wonder if you have just solved my dilemma with the jockey wheels. Thanks

[Visus]

Rowing back after replacing my written 12 speed Shimano chain with the standard 11 speed Shimano Dura Ace chain. Still silent. As mentioned above, the solution wasn't a new chain but new jockey wheels without those toothpick teeth. Shifting is back to exceptional.

So to summarize yous used the Kogel Gen 2 12/14t pulley wheels which made it quiet?

Two other user reported they tried 6800 (only upper?) pulley wheels instead of the 8050/9150 long toothed one which led to sloppy shifting

And another user reportet 9000 (upper + lower) pulley wheels worked and made it quiet.

So are the 6800 and 9000 pulley wheels different?
Are there other alternatives to Kogel? Had some bad experiences with their BBs and would prefer to solve it differently.

I would steer clear of Kogel pulley wheels, they're shit IMHO. Go with C-Bear or CermaicSpeed.

Ryanw discouraged from using them. Would be interested in his experiences.

Has anyone, who also noticed the noisey 8000/9100 drivetrain, switched to ceramicspeed OSPW and can make a comparison? I really don't want to buy that snakes oil but would be interesting.
@Ryanw You said your using one?

In my case I have a noisy 8070 drivetrain using an Ultegra 11-32 cassette.
Interestingly enough though on a different bike with mechanical R8000 and same cassette the drivetrain is a bit quieter.

[nycebo]

Candidly, I don't think oversized jockey wheels are necessary. I just prefer the look. Maybe they add a hint less friction but I never noticed. Without the shimano teeth though, they are silent and shift well.

One thing to not is that they are metal and is you listen very closely, there is a discernable metallic sound in contrast to the hard plastic sound. I don't hear it riding the bike but I hear it in the stand if I put my ear close.

In regards to cost, I don't think I would spend as much for the Kogel. I have now found a bunch of good options that are half price and lower. I just didn't find them when I started this quest for silence.

In the end, I think shimano made one minor oversight here in jockey wheel design.

[Richt1978]

I ended up with similar woes to many of you on here to.

Upgraded to a Dura Ace 9150 rear mech at the end of last summer, and only had a quick ride on the bike before tucking it away for winter. Ended up taking a trip to Gran Canaria back in December and ended up getting annoyed with the excessive noise in the large chain ring (as was my riding buddy!) for the whole week. Tried both 11 speed Ultegra and Dura Ace chains on return, and at different chain lengths and playing with the B tension/chain gap. None of which could get anywhere near the silence of the previous 9070 on the same bike.

Took the cheapest option I read on here, the Tunap Spray Wax, again no real improvement, so was ready to invest some cash in the new jockey wheels. But decided first to try the 12 Speed Shimano XTR M9100 as others have suggested here. Nice and quiet from the inital fitting, and still the same 750 miles later, including a couple of wet rides (one over 200km). Shifting seems as good as on the 11 speed chains.

The 12 speed chain alone has ended up as the fix for me here. Thanks to all suggesting it.

On another bike with a Ultegra 8050 rear mech - It was silent from day 1 just with the standard chain. Very odd.

[nycebo]

Maybe the Shimano 12-speed chain has a subtly different design that accomodates the teeth better?

Either way, at least there are now two options to resolve that sound. A buddy of mine has been complaining about it for months but I was reluctant to make a suggestion until I could confirm which approach worked. As it turns out, both do!

[Visus]

Maybe the Shimano 12-speed chain has a subtly different design that accomodates the teeth better?

Either way, at least there are now two options to resolve that sound. A buddy of mine has been complaining about it for months but I was reluctant to make a suggestion until I could confirm which approach worked. As it turns out, both do!

Maybe there are two components: rubbing on adjacent cogs -> solved by thinner chain and rubing on the elongated teeth of the upper pulley in all gears without perfect chainline

You mentioned you've found alternatives to the Kogel pulley wheels? I would actually prefer quality steel bearings to ceramic but I don't think those exist