Hookless and updated ISO Standards - Thomas De Gendt Crash

[6fu]

Circles back to basic question: outside of lower manufacturing cost and higher yields, what do consumers have to gain? Because hooked wheels do it all...

Basically nothing, it looses all the advantages hooked wheels have. There is an argument that the wheels are cheaper to manufacture but I still don't see them getting considerably cheaper than hooked, and it locks you into running only specific TL hookless approved tyres which are - more expensive.

25 pages of discussion basically boils down to people not wanting to risk hookles vs hookless wheel owners that are trying to justify it

[Spaetzle]

ZIPP 303s for 1k€ are relatively cheap imho.

[UrgentDelay]

This discussion swayed me into buying a hooked wheelset today as I switched away from a hookless manufacturer. If anyone from the industry is following this topic, then you have it. Thank McKinsey, EY, PwC or whoever advised you to expand your margins through the use of this wonderful hookless technology.

Better hooked than toothless.

[mikehhhhhhh]

Just out of curiosity, how many that are anti-hookless after these events are using cheap Chinese wheels that aren't being put through their paces in the pro tour?

[toxin]

Im not but I would not point to pro equipment for safety and reliability. Pinarello would seem like quality bikes when in reality the dogmas are plagued with cracks. How many shimano cranks were in pros? How many are still racing and training on useless shimano pms? The list goes on and on.

Not at all uncommon for pros to be using crap when the sponsors shelled out more for marketing than development.

[MikeD]

Just out of curiosity, how many that are anti-hookless after these events are using cheap Chinese wheels that aren't being put through their paces in the pro tour?

Aren't most of the Chinese wheels hooked?

[toxin]

Also pretty much all carbon rims out there are chinese made these days, often by the same manufacturers that sell their own "cheap" d2c wheels.

[Mr.Gib]

Just out of curiosity, how many that are anti-hookless after these events are using cheap Chinese wheels that aren't being put through their paces in the pro tour?

What wheel brands in the pro tour are not made in China?

[Hexsense]

Just out of curiosity, how many that are anti-hookless after these events are using cheap Chinese wheels that aren't being put through their paces in the pro tour?

What wheel brands in the pro tour are not made in China?

I think his post targets cheap Chinese, not any Chinese wheels.

If the wheel cost over $800 it's no longer cheap.
And it's especially worry-free if it come from famous brands with long history and credibility like Winspace, Farsports, Light-Bicycle, Yoeleo.

I think the post target something like Aliexpress, Ebay,​ Amazon-special $499 carbon wheelset.

[bobones]

Just out of curiosity, how many that are anti-hookless after these events are using cheap Chinese wheels that aren't being put through their paces in the pro tour?

What wheel brands in the pro tour are not made in China?

I think his post targets cheap Chinese, not any Chinese wheels.

If the wheel cost over $800 it's no longer cheap.
And it's especially worry-free if it come from famous brands with long history and credibility like Winspace, Farsports, Light-Bicycle, Yoeleo.

I think the post target something like Aliexpress, Ebay,​ Amazon-special $499 carbon wheelset.

Ay but there's the rub. There is no actual safety concern with cheap Chinese hooked wheels: consumer confidence is high after a decade or so in the field. On the other hand, we are seeing incidents with expensive mainstream (Zipp) and exotic (Extralight) hookless wheels on a regular basis.

In practice, the likelihood of an unexplained blowoff from a hooked rim must be thousands of times less than with a hookless rim regardless of price, brand credibility, origin country, or Tour testing. When industry tech leaders like JP Ballard, Xavier Disley and Josh Poertner discourage us from road hookless given what they've witnessed testing hundreds of wheels and tyres, users who consciously choose to buy and ride hookless wheels must be in line for Darwin awards.

[EtoDemerzel]

Just out of curiosity, how many that are anti-hookless after these events are using cheap Chinese wheels that aren't being put through their paces in the pro tour?

Probably 90% of the bicycles sold.
The vast majority of bicycles sold have "cheap chinese wheels" that are hooked. They are low tolerance, cheap, with cheap tires with an eye on value and durability. Garden hoses with the tolerances of soft butter. No one ever has a concern about blowoffs nor should they.
Hooked tires just work, whether it's pro racing, a walmart kids bike, or anything inbetween.

I'm not anti-hookless. I'm anti-halfassery.

[6fu]

Just out of curiosity, how many that are anti-hookless after these events are using cheap Chinese wheels that aren't being put through their paces in the pro tour?

I'm not, I'm on dt Swiss currently, but I also don't care what they ride on pro tour as they ride only what sponsors are trying to sell.

[mikehhhhhhh]

Just out of curiosity, how many that are anti-hookless after these events are using cheap Chinese wheels that aren't being put through their paces in the pro tour?

What wheel brands in the pro tour are not made in China?

I think his post targets cheap Chinese, not any Chinese wheels.

If the wheel cost over $800 it's no longer cheap.
And it's especially worry-free if it come from famous brands with long history and credibility like Winspace, Farsports, Light-Bicycle, Yoeleo.

I think the post target something like Aliexpress, Ebay,​ Amazon-special $499 carbon wheelset.

It targets the popular direct to consumer Chinese brands like winspace, farsports etc. Wheels that are designed, manufactured, built, QA'd and sold from China, that don't feature on pro bikes.

This thread wouldn't exist if hookless wheels weren't used in the pro peloton. So my curiosity was what would happen to these Chinese wheels in the pro tour. Would they survive the rigours of pro abuse, hooked or otherwise?

It made me wonder how much of our trust in these wheels is because we've seen fewer issues because of smaller sample sizes and there being none in the public eye?

Especially when you see some of the QA issues shared by the YouTubers that regularly feature direct from china brands. I have two friends who have given up on Winspace wheels because of quality issues.

Just seemed like interesting food for thought, if you were being objective about wheel safety.

[bobones]

^ Whataboutery, pure and simple. The question here is regards the safety of hookless v hooked. Surely you realise that the probability of random blow offs on hooked wheels approaches zero and is likely to be thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, times less than with hookless. Unless you're looking for a Darwin award, why carry that extra risk?

[mikehhhhhhh]

Surely you realise that the probability of random blow offs on hooked wheels approaches zero and is likely to be thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, times less than with hookless.

But is it?

I've seen as many hooked tyre dismounts in the pro peloton as hookless. There were two in one race last year.

I've also not seen any evidence of random blow-offs besides the case on youtube where the rim was way out of spec.