Tubeless vs tubed

[TobinHatesYou]

Inventing stuff again Tobin. Conspiracy? Did I say it was wrong? Best evidence you got is one picture saying SOME tubeless systems are QUITE effective

I can agree with that. How can anyone disagree really.

Yep, you said not to expect 1-2%/day. People trying tubeless absolutely should expect that kind of air retention

Also the example I shared is from an article on air retention coincidentally published in the last day.

But sure, keep spreading FUD about thru-axles and now tubeless.

[HenryH]

Inventing stuff again Tobin. Conspiracy? Did I say it was wrong? Best evidence you got is one picture saying SOME tubeless systems are QUITE effective

I can agree with that. How can anyone disagree really.

Yes, you said not to expect it. People trying t

"based on my and others I know ride tubeless experiences"

I will gladly make changes to what I post if it is written in a way that might be misunderstood, is wrong etc., but I think that post is pretty clear for anyone not Tobin.

[GregR]

Well that escalated quickly.
Alright so while I did consider that this could turn into a brawl this is a bit over the top. Chill out bros..
Henry and Tobin, are you two still happy (or not) with tubeless? I'm not that fussed about pressure drop. I have a pump and used to run latex.

[HenryH]

I'm happy, but I'm not sure if I'm happier than I would be with latex. On road bikes the upside to me seems to be marginal. I'm not sure what I'll do when I have worn out my tyres.

For someone curious to test it out I wouldn't strongly recommend against it to put it that way. I guess little harm done if you do.

[HansZuDemFranz]

I went for years with latex without a single flat. New set of wheels and I decided to change to tubeless. Installing them were a complete nightmare so I have no idea how I would solve a puncture that won't seal on the road.

The thing of course how often would that happen?

One of the reasons I went tubeless was to see if it would work better for multi day trips. Small pumps are a nightmare to get to 90psi, but unfortunately my current 5000 TL aren't really holding air that much better than what I used to get from latex so I still got to pump.

So I don't know. It almost becomes a physological question. If you worry about that one puncture and the hassle that could potentially give you then I wouldn't recommend tubeless. If that doesn't worry you then tubeless will still offer some small benefits in my mind. You migth get small punctures you won't ever notice. And even if I'm not convinced I would be able to notice in a blind test they do seem slightly more comfortable to me. Kind of got the feeling that I will continue riding tubeless until I get that one puncture I can't fix. That isn't completely rational of course.

Years without a flat? How many people can make that claim?

If your tubeless setup isn’t holding air noticeably better than latex, you’re doing something wrong. I expect to lose about 10% a day with latex tubes. I expect to lose 1-2% a day with most tubeless tires. With Goodyear tubeless tires, it’s more like 3% per week.

Also GP5Ks stretch considerably after inflation. They come off quite easily compared to initial mounting. Surely you must have noticed that after wearing through your first rear tire.

My Pirelli Race TLR go from 5bar to 4bar within 24 hours and then basically stay at 4 bar. To be honest it isnt perfect but it has never bothered me, since pumping the tyres up takes like 30 seconds.

On my next setup I think I might go back to Tubes, just to try out some of the new lightweight tubes. I basically never flat (Tubes or Tubeles). If I recall correctly, I had 4 punctures within the last 35k km. One of those was actually sealed by the sealant. But to be fair, if I would get punctures more frequently, I would definetly stay on Tubeless tyres.

[ryanw]

Not that anyone cares, but I will never use innertubes again now road tubeless has evolved.

Latex and Turbo Cottons still in the top 2 of my all time setups, but too many punctures and a blowout on a descent, not worth the agro.

[GregR]

Ryan, what tires are you using / do you recommend?

[ryanw]

Big fan of Vittoria Corsa (Speed) TLR and Veloflex Corsa Evo & Race.

Spesh S-Works Turbo and Enve SES probs my top non-corespun tubeless tyres.

GP5K TL good but grip levels are tripe.

[HenryH]

I could see the risk of blow out being an argument for not running latex. I'm hoping at least if/when I get a puncture on tubeless that it won't be a very dramatic event.

I won't get the 5000TL next time by the way. Grip hasn't bothered me, but my experience is also that it is average. If I continue with tubeless I'll probably try veloflex next time.

[pdlpsher1]

Not that anyone here cares, but the GP5K TL inventory here in the U.S. is non-existent.

[warthog101]

Have only tried Hutchinson fusion5 performance (rubbish-tread wore rapidly and blistered) and GP5KTL.
The Conti's went on by hand, wear and grip well and hold air much better. They are an excellent tyre imo.
Not going back to tubes.
Plan to also try Pirelli p-zero velo race TLR.

[CR987]

Tubeless for 4 years and over 25,000km, I will not go back to tubes. Things I have learnt... Orange Seal is the only sealant that has worked for me. Stan's, Stan's Race, Sludge, Joe's and Joe's Road Sealant are all junk past 50psi.
A little trick I found, sometimes the puncture is so small that it only let's air out and is too small for the sealant to seal. I carry a thin pin nail in my tools and use it to enlarge the hole enough for the sealant to do its thing. Previously on Schwalbe Pro One's, currently on Goodyear F1's.

P. S. Cadex tyres are so loose fitting, I have no idea how they could ever be sold as tubeless

[MikeD]

I could see the risk of blow out being an argument for not running latex. I'm hoping at least if/when I get a puncture on tubeless that it won't be a very dramatic event.

I won't get the 5000TL next time by the way. Grip hasn't bothered me, but my experience is also that it is average. If I continue with tubeless I'll probably try veloflex next time.

Why are latex tubes prone to blowouts? They can't take the heat as well as butyl, but if you're not doing really steep, long descents, heavy on the brakes, they should be as reliable as butyl. In fact it is claimed they are more puncture resistant than butyl tubes.

[TobinHatesYou]

Standard weight Tubolito and Aerothan are right below latex in Crr and ride quality, but are better than standard butyl for air retention. And they have better puncture resistance than latex as well.

[HenryH]

I could see the risk of blow out being an argument for not running latex. I'm hoping at least if/when I get a puncture on tubeless that it won't be a very dramatic event.

I won't get the 5000TL next time by the way. Grip hasn't bothered me, but my experience is also that it is average. If I continue with tubeless I'll probably try veloflex next time.

Why are latex tubes prone to blowouts? They can't take the heat as well as butyl, but if you're not doing really steep, long descents, heavy on the brakes, they should be as reliable as butyl. In fact it is claimed they are more puncture resistant than butyl tubes.

I didn't mean to differentiate between latex and any other sort of tube.

In any case I don't think it is a big deal, but it seems to me if you get a high speed puncture you will have a better shot of it not being dramatic on tubeless. Even if it doesn't completely seal you would think the sealant would at least make it lose air slower? And you will not have a tube blowing out. There might be other fault modes more likely on tubeless though? I don't know.