Help please! Kona Hei Hei '96 brake issue

[dannymelancholy]

Hi there

I hope someone can help. I recently bought a (claimed) '96 Kona Hei Hei from eBay (probably not such a good idea when you read the following...)

I cant find a set of V brakes that will fit - the spring pin on the brakes is too far out to fit into the locator holes on the frame ie the diameter from centre of brake boss to spring pin locator hole is (fractionally!) too small on the frame. Ive tried Avid, Shimano and Tektro (yeuch!) but none fitted. I dont want to bend the spring pin as this will either break or cause the brake to twist on the boss and not operate correctly. I tried KonaWorld but no luck/reply and all my LBSs are baffled as they claim all V and Cantis are the same diameter in theory, although old, low quality Cantis with plastic housings may have a looser tolerence they say (again, yeuch!).

Update: have now been informed that the '96 was spec'd with hydraulic V brakes (oh no) which may explain the problem, but not a lightweight solution.

Any suggestions? Anyone know of a decent pair of canti's or (ha ha) lightweight hydraulics? Dont really want to have to get another frame...

Many thanks!

[beane]

Hi Danny I have a 97' King Kahuna (top end TI frame)and am running 05'XT V-brakes infact I've run about 4 differnet types of V's with no issue the bike never came with hydraulic V-Brakes as they dont exist the only thing near that description was some hydraulic cables you could buy in the 90's...but im going away from the issue here...

Is it possible for you to show me a picture of the problem ? Also if you need to know anything else about that lovley frame let me know

[mattpage]

I guess by Hydraulic V-Brakes you would mean magura RS33 brakes.

They are hyraulic rim brakes, not v-brakes.

[Frankie - B]

the bike never came with hydraulic V-Brakes as they dont exist the only thing near that description was some hydraulic cables you could buy in the 90's...but im going away from the issue here...

I present thee....

The full hydrolic v- brake made by Jochen Wendler (German bloke). They go under the name starbike. (funny coincidence)

[JK]

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/articles.php?ID=20

Here is one 1996 Hei Hei. With regular V-brakes.

I do not think Hei Hei's were ever specced with hydraulic brakes. Who has informed you they were? Even if they were, they would still have their brake bosses prepared for canti's.

Check http://konaretro.com for the age of your frame.

[beane]

the bike never came with hydraulic V-Brakes as they dont exist the only thing near that description was some hydraulic cables you could buy in the 90's...but im going away from the issue here...

I present thee....

The full hydrolic v- brake made by Jochen Wendler (German bloke). They go under the name starbike. (funny coincidence)

I stand corrected

But I can tell you for a fact the (UK anyway that they never came with those brakes...I sold Konas from 90'-97' infact I have nearly every years catalogue so I'll go have a look see ....1 sec

Here we go sorry haven't got the scanner set up so I took a piccy

as can be seen it was with Maguras ....but the bosses were still the std spiggots that sandvik supplied..

[Frankie - B]

a mechanic at my lbs had a set of those on his zaskar. So they were sold that must have been about 5 years ago.

To get back to the topic, I would like to see some pictures of the problem. (Pics often say more then a thousand words...)

[dannymelancholy]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the input, very much appreciated, especially retro Kona info, nice one.

Yes, sorry, I meant Hydraulic rims brakes, not Vs, although we now all know hydraulic Vs do exist (id not ehard of them before)

Cant send pictures right now as at work and I only have a camera phone so doub it'll show up the issue very well. However, please trust me when I say the distance between the centre of the brake boss and the spring retainer holes is too small for my 2005 Avid SD Ti's, 2004 XTR, and some (year unkonwn) Tektros I had access to. Plus, four LBSs couldnt find a brake to fit and were all baffled (and so maybe arent so good in any case?).

I too think its very odd as everyone I have spoken to says hydraulics fit standard bosses and that the 96 had standard bosses so should be no problem, but it is.

In any case, I have been told (by several sources) that Paul Component Vs (and some Dia-compe cantis) have a different, self-contained spring mechanism that does not even use the holes on the brake boss to tension the springs at all. Ive sourced and paid for a set on www.singletrackworld.com, including levers which is good, although I already have Proshifts which are about the same weight, give or take a gram! Provided this works, problem solved, although its still a bit of a mystery.

Ill try and add some photos in a couple hours to illustrate the current problem.

And again, thanks very much to you all, hope I can return the favour.

Pictures and weights coming soon (USE Alien post, FSA carbon bars, Control Tech Ti skewers, Ritchye WCS stem, Cane Creek HS, Am Class hollow bb, 517/Hugi/DT, Maxxis Flyweight 330...Its my first weight project, hope Im doing OK?

[ebay_special]

danny,
I see from the development of this thread that you've ordered some Paul V brakes because if their unique spring arrangement ?
If you mean the Paul Motolite Z brake, I've just fitted a pair to my Litespeed Pisgah.
I removed a new set of Avid SD Ti's whose power and modulation were superb BUT I loved the look of the Paul's (in silver) so went ahead with them and teamed them with some silver Avid Ultimate levers. Things you need to be aware of:
VERY VERY fussy set up (brilliant when you've got it right).
They come with Kool Stop thinline pads (and you'll need them with your brake bosses sitting closer together).
The pads have various washer permutations that'll try your patience - for you there is only ONE permutation: brake block, 2mm spacer, convex - then mount in Paul's pad retaining block. All the other washers, spacers etc go on the barrel nut/ clamping side. This'll make sense when you see the package !
The arms pivot on a beautiful stainless mount (grease it) and when you insert the square wire spring into the arm with the spring lock nut on top, ensure that the allen screw is degreased and then bolt the assemly up with threadlock. The spring lock nut needs to be turned 45degrees from vertical away from the forks to preload the spring. Do this and they'll be a revelation and WON'T go out of adjustment.
If you're using them on a suspension fork, you're OK because they have integral brake boosters, if not, you'll need a booster for the front brake because these brakes are VERY powerful and in my case, squealed and juddered despite perfect block setting and toe in. Also, if you use wheels with a ceramic rim coating (I do) - you'll need the correct pads (Kool Stop thinline green zirconium).
I use the www.nokon.de cable system for brakes and gears and this set up now gives me 1 fingered braking - and it's the little finger at that) !
Don't be put off by the fact that the Pauls aren't like other brakes (plug n' play)...... the road to nirvana was never an easy one. I hope this helps.

julian

[dannymelancholy]

Thanks for the advice Julian, much appreciated. I am still awaiting the arrival of the Monolites (seller had to wait for cheque to clear) so I'd yet to find out the hard way but now I wont have to! The Paul web site claims set up is very very easy! Thanks again.

For anyone who is still interested, here's a picture of the brake boss with an Avid SD Ti brake. As you can see, there is no way that spring pin will recess into the brake boss holes. I'd still be interested in knowing what the hell is going on with this boss but as the original owner and Konaworld are evading my emails maybe it will remain a mystery...

[pieterp]

I recently bought a (claimed) '96 Kona Hei Hei

I think you have a 'real' Kona Hei Hei, looking at the cilinderical braje boss mounts.
Take a look at this frame:

It has recently been sold by this store: www.filipsport.com
Maybe they can tell you a bit more about the issue.

[beane]

Hi Danny now I can see what you mean looks to me to be a brake problem...I've just gone down to the garage to take a pic of my commute bike 97' Kona King Kahuna as I said made by sandvik for them the same as yours..

The boss looks exactly the same as mine see pic I'm using std 05' XT V's I've had 97' XT's 98'XTR's and Control Tech's on with no issue...

Boss


Boss 2


Bike

[Adri]

funky problem.
I believe the frame must have been fitted with badly drilled v-brake bosses. Since he tried all kinds of v-brakes and none of them fits, this must be the cause.

Mail Kona at tech@konaworld.com and explain the problem to them, give them the frame number and see what they come up with. They answered my emails pretty quick and offer good feedback.

[beane]

My view if you look at both side by side his pic and my boss pic.... the distance from the outer edge of the boss to the hole looks exactly the same if there is any difference i would say its under a millimeter

[TiMoots]

Just an idea. Have you checked that the brake posts in the frame are not bent, so they are perfectly perpendicular to the bosses base?.