Sram red 22 VS Campagnolo Super Record VS Shimano 9100

[GothicCastle]

How come the other 2 brands still cannot cut the total weight any further as to the same as Sram Red 22

You ask this question as if the other two manufacturers care about being the same weight as Red.

[bm0p700f]

Campagnolo spares are not hard to source, I have a shop full if then. The distributor s don't buy all the spares though there are simply too many of them.

The only thing about super record I don't like is the price of the cassette. It is hard to justify that and s chorus cassette adds not much weight but is alot cheaper. Sram cassettes are ideal in how they are made and can be used with Campagnolo the shifting is fine but not perfect. One of the advantages of Campagnolo apart from the shifter ergonomic s is the longevity of the cables. Being made from high austinite stainless steel they last. Also there bottom brackets particularly the cult BB outlast everything else by a good margin.

[freehub]

I worked in bike shops for years and the SRAM to other manufacturers failure rate, on the conservative side was 10 to 1. This ratio increases when you start including SRAM family products like Quarq. Their warranty process was the generally the easiest of any of the major manufacturers but this was probably because they did it the most. Shifters ratcheting mechanisms failled all the time RD springs broke in every level of derailleur, etc.

Good insight morgan thanks from a man who lives the reality of all groupsets available each day. I have ridden Sram, have owned Shimano at various levels and in particular love their cranksets and brakes, however own and ride Campy as that is my preference. I rode DA 9000 mech for a season to make sure my bias wasn't colored by years of riding Campy but went back to Campy simply because I prefer the ergonomics of Campy shifters. Everything else is a push....maybe except for shift quality...Campy shifts with more of a snap versus a click which I prefer in the heat of the battle...this tactile feedback that a shift has been effectuated. Shimano DA shifts seamlessly however without this feedback. To me, Chorus is the sweet spot...no need to spend the $ for either Record or SR IMO.

As to weight, the difference and in particular perhaps most important, the reliability you point out, this delicate balance of optimizing weight relative to reliability and durability, a few grams of weight doesn't matter to me if these manifest a reliability margin...these few grams put in the right places to ensure performance over time. Sram ratchet and spring failures to me based upon my experience portend poor metallurgy and cost cutting with little to do with weight but of course change the complexion of ownership. I have ridden Campy groupsets that need nothing over 10 years...not a single thing other than a chain and I ride a lot. I believe Shimano to have good reliability as well.

A F1 car was used as an analogy earlier. Yes, without question, weight matters and even the focus of this forum. The new Emonda SLR frame alone weighs 650 grams. Not a lot of frames out there in the 500 gram range and for good reason. Strength and durability would suffer. It could be argued that at 650 grams the Emonda SLR flirts with the margin of durability with the highest modulus aka strength to weight carbon fiber available. We shall see the track record of the new SLR over time. F1 cars could be made even lighter, but they aren't for strength of components. Stronger materials relative to weight are sought after each day and no doubt will be created no doubt procreated by the next gen of 3-D printing on the molecular level spawning the next industrial revolution.

[ak47]

IMHO Red is lighter, but you pay price for it. I think it is:

-weaker brakes
-louder drivetrain (it mainly comes from the hollow cassette)
-clunky, cheap feeling of the lever's mechanism

Can't comment on the durability, because I have not used any of the SRAM road products for longer periods, but I have not heard any horror stories amongst my friends.


And on top of that there's the finishing of the groupset. When eTap arrived to my friend's bike I couldn't believe it was the final product. It looked like a beta version. It felt like an outdated product in terms of design. The metal and carbon parts looked simply unfinished, like they saved a lot of money on not taking care of it. It probably saves some weight too, but I don't like matte, raw looking bikes just to save a couple of grams. All of these is the reason I went with the mechanical 9100 - the parts work and look beautiful and I don't really care about 200 grams of additional weight.

[Kumppa]

I've been running a SRAM Red cassette without issue with my otherwise SR groupset. Shifts nice and slick, no noise either.

I've never heard of this slow shifting thing and certainly never experienced it.

Thanks for reply. Shifting issues was meantioned on some old topics from ~3 yeas ago as its working but not so smooth than with right one. I would probably just get Chorus cassette and compare it with Red22 cassette later on.

I have always liked Campys look and in here where I live 95% of bikes have Shimano or Sram so little bit exotic things is in my heart. Iam riding Parlee Z5sl and I like how almost noon don't even know that brand. So Campagnolo would be good choise to be "different" and I like the idea you can get large scale of spare parts. Noise would be also big part of this choise as mine 10sp Red with xg cassette is too loud for my taste. Brother have Red22 and thats not so loud with xg cassette so prob theres something development. Or KMC chain is just so much louder than Sram own. Quarq would be my pm choise just becouse of 700€ pricetag.

Did some calcs and these are lowerst prices I found:

Red22 minigroupset with Red cassette and chain ~880€
SR minigroup with Chorus cassette and Record chain~950€ (probably would go with Record rear derailleur as my LBS should have one in sale for 200€ so final price 800€)
Record minigroup with Chorus cassette and Record chain ~785€

Weight difference between SR option and Red would be ~165g. Bike is now build up to be pretty low weight without any real lightweight parts and Iam already getting some weight from Quarq. I don't care that much for weight but still like the idea to keep bike near 6kg mark as the frame is pretty light and not aero. Keep it light with Red would be easiest setup as I already use 10sp Red. Or should I get something new and fancy...

[moonoi]

I'd be careful mixing the Quarq with Campy. I tried that with a DZero and my SR group on my C60 and had endless chainline problems, replacing with an SR crankset resolved them, so ended up using a Stages SR for my PM.

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[Kumppa]

I'd be careful mixing the Quarq with Campy. I tried that with a DZero and my SR group on my C60 and had endless chainline problems, replacing with an SR crankset resolved them, so ended up using a Stages SR for my PM.

Good point. Of course theres differents on frames and would need test it myself. I could get Stages gen 2 SR 170mm crankarm for really good price but Iam not that fan of only left side pms. Second problem is I have always used 172,5mm cranks and that dream deal would only be 170mm. But that option would cost me same as Quarq if I would use secondhand SR crankset.

[moonoi]

Aesthetically though, the SR crank & Stages solution is far better, even if you can get the Quarq to work

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[Kumppa]

Aesthetically though, the SR crank & Stages solution is far better, even if you can get the Quarq to work

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Dam you are pushing me to SR.

Just noticed my LBS have one Record derailleur sale for 200€ (150€ save for SR, hopefully it would not disturb me later on), SR shifters + front derailleur with chain and Chorus cassette = 800€
So if I would just go SR crankset and Stages only real problem would be do I notice any different between 170 and 172,5 cranks and is my left and right leg balanced...

[moonoi]

You might need a slight adjustment in your saddle height, but in fairness I've switched between 172.5/175 and not really noticed, YMMV

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[glepore]

While you do have to be careful of chainline (whenever) my experience with Quarq and Campy has been its fine. Excellent even. Personally, I delogo my Quarq crankarms so they look fine with any group.

As to the original question, the big weight differences have been pointed out-cranks and cassette. Slight Sram weight advantage for brakes, but brakes often get swapped if light is your primary goal. I'm happy with sram cassette w/ SR, its louder and a bit clunky but it is on a Shimano group as well, nature of the beast. Easier on freehubs, more durable. Just wish they had a 12-27 or 28 in 11.