I'm a 44yr old, 5'7" / 168cm, who rides 3 times a week, doing about 200km's/wk, 90% good flatish roads. I love the look of aero bikes.
I currently ride a Look 595, Super Record & Zipp 404's (all about 2010).
I'm looking for a new bike and debating between:
1) Pinarello Dogma F8 - meant to be great, one shop thought it was a harsher ride?
2) Trek Madone 9 Project One - looks great, local shop makes this easy, brand seems less cool to me....
3) De Rosa SK Pininfarina - looks amazing, boutique brand, may be hard if I have warranty issues? Not convenient service....
Groupsets - either SRAM Etap or Super Record EPS. Wheels - either ENVE or Bora Ultras.
Any advice, experience or thoughts to share?
Thanks,
J
Debating a new bike.... F8, Madone 9 or De Rosa SK?
Moderator: robbosmans
Pinarello - if you want the brand. Definitely not too aero. Definitely harsh.
Madone - aero and comfort plus you get to have it the way you like.
De Rosa - looks great. Probably loses out to the Madone for aero and comfort.
Think you know what I'll recommend, but usually people who even consider the Dogma will get it eventually cos it's a pinarello.
Madone - aero and comfort plus you get to have it the way you like.
De Rosa - looks great. Probably loses out to the Madone for aero and comfort.
Think you know what I'll recommend, but usually people who even consider the Dogma will get it eventually cos it's a pinarello.
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Hi, not sure how helpful this is but i'm the same height as you but 9 years older and ride a F8 [size 50]. I came from a 2013 65.1. Yes certainly "less plush" than the 65.1 but not sure harsh is the right word. 25mm tubs certainly help........... and the roads I ride in rural Australia are generally shite!!!
Steve
Steve
BB
Coffee & carbon
Coffee & carbon
I would go for the De Rosa. It looks better than both Pinarello and Trek IMO and it is more exclusive. According to the few reviews it is a great ride like most hi-end De Rosas.
If you want to attract a lot of attention, definitly go with the trek.
If you want the bike that gives you the most aerodynamic advantage, the trek is propably the best choice. However, I don't know what kind of riding you do. When you only do rides at speeds around 30km/h (or slower) there is almost no aerodynamic advantage. From my experience, at 38km/h aerodynamics begin to have a serious influence of your ride. So my advice, unless you compete in races or do a lot of training sessions at serious speeds, don't look at aerodynamic advantage of a bike.
Really the best thing to do in my opinion is to see if you can testride all three of these bikes and buy the one that gives you the best ride personally. Otherwise, go with the one with looks the best for you.
For me, that would be the De Rosa. I think Pinarello is a brand for mamils, it probably is a great ride, but you got the same for less money with another brand. I always liked trek, but the new madone... same story as the venge vias, a little over the top (and for the trek, a little to much logo).
If you want the bike that gives you the most aerodynamic advantage, the trek is propably the best choice. However, I don't know what kind of riding you do. When you only do rides at speeds around 30km/h (or slower) there is almost no aerodynamic advantage. From my experience, at 38km/h aerodynamics begin to have a serious influence of your ride. So my advice, unless you compete in races or do a lot of training sessions at serious speeds, don't look at aerodynamic advantage of a bike.
Really the best thing to do in my opinion is to see if you can testride all three of these bikes and buy the one that gives you the best ride personally. Otherwise, go with the one with looks the best for you.
For me, that would be the De Rosa. I think Pinarello is a brand for mamils, it probably is a great ride, but you got the same for less money with another brand. I always liked trek, but the new madone... same story as the venge vias, a little over the top (and for the trek, a little to much logo).
Thanks for all the comments. Unfortunately none of the bikes are being offered for a test ride - that would be the ideal solution!
I probably do 1/2 of each ride at 35 - 40kmph, so I'll get some aero advantage I hope : )
I also love the aero look when I'm sitting at a cafe afterwards.....
I probably do 1/2 of each ride at 35 - 40kmph, so I'll get some aero advantage I hope : )
I also love the aero look when I'm sitting at a cafe afterwards.....
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CanadianBiker
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:34 pm
I went through a similar excercise but had the C60, F8, M9 and a Tarmac S-Works as the bikes I was comparing. The C60 and F8 are rich in Italian biking history and the bikes are absolutely gorgeous. Going into my test ride I was going there was a 75% chance I was getting the C60, 25% chance the F8 and 0% the M9 or Tarmac. I honestly did not want a Giant, Specialize or Trek. I wanted a bike that was less common in Canada but the dealer I was buying the C60 also had an M9 and offered for me to take it home for a day. I also only tested the Tarmac as my friend works at their Canadian distributor and lent me the Tarmac for a few weeks.
I'm 38 and I ride anywhere between 200-400kms/weeks, most of what we do is flats and we have some hills if us east coasters can consider them hills that have about 100-300m ascensions. Most of my rides are alone or in groups of 2-5 riders and very few huge group rides.
The Test Rides
C60 (160kms): The C60 is the bike I've been dreaming of for the last 3 years, I actually had bough a C59 that ended up being a fake and if you look at my posts on the forum, this was always my first choice. On the ride I found the C60 sluggish compared to the other bikes, it often felt more like an endurance bike then a race bike (I am saying that in comparison to the other bikes I tested), It's is extremely grounded to the road and very different in feeling then anything I have owned or ridden in the past. I found it handle the hills well both going up and down, acceleration did not feel as quick as the other bikes but what can you say, the bike is a beauty and if you love what you ride you ride more often and faster. I have to say I was impressed at top speeds it still performed well. I will own a top of the line Colnago it's on my bucket list.
F8 65kms bike shop actually got mad cause I took it out so long: The F8 was my 2nd choice of bike and when I took it out it did not dissapointed, the bike has quick acceleration handles going up or downhill very well but you feel the road more then then the C60, the bike is extremely stiff and much more aero then people think, It was very easy for me to maintain my top speeds on the flats with it. After the ride the F8 was a serious contender and I have to say with MyWay you can really make this bike look amazing.
Tarmac over 750kms: The Tarmac is a very bland looking bike for me and in Canada they are everywhere but the bike was fantastic to ride, honestly I had a hard time to tell the difference between the F8 and the Tarmac. Which made buying the F8 that much more difficult as I would of been paying 4000$CDN for name and look. I found going up hill on the Tarmac better then the F8 but I would take the F8 going downhill every day of the week.
Madone 9 130kms: I did not want a trek and the first M9 I was was the greyish with a green that dealers got last year which I found ugly, however when I walked into the store and saw the new RSL I was impressed the bike was something special. The F8 and C60 are like Ferraris and Lambos but the M9 is like a Formula 1 race car. The M9 is an incredibly fast bike and it's hard not to be pushing it all the time on it as the bike wants to go fast. The thing that blew me away is that we have horrible roads in eastern Canada and this bike felt more comfortable then the other ones. The bike doesn't climb as well as the F8 or Tarmac but it really doesn't feel sluggish neither However going down the hills or on flats I was able to maintain much higher speeds and alway felt in full control of the bike. I actually got PR on every single segment on my test ride except 1 an 11degree climb which I finished with my 3rd best time. I still wasn't a fan of the brand but this bike feels like it's the start of a new generations of bikes. The only thing I am not 100% sold on is the cockpit, I found riding on the tops for too long had an odd feeling. I was shocked but the bike I dreamed of and wanted to ride again was the M9, it was special and fast and comfortable and in the RSL Edition it was gorgeous.
I don't think you can make a wrong decision with any of the bikes you buy but I bough the M9 and I am impatiently waiting for it's arrival. I wanted a boutique Italian bike filled in history with a unique paint job but ended up with one of the American brand that is anything but boutique because I realized that yes you have to love the look of the bike (which I do for my M9) but you can also love the way it makes you feel when you ride it and nothing was as special to me as the M9.
I'm 38 and I ride anywhere between 200-400kms/weeks, most of what we do is flats and we have some hills if us east coasters can consider them hills that have about 100-300m ascensions. Most of my rides are alone or in groups of 2-5 riders and very few huge group rides.
The Test Rides
C60 (160kms): The C60 is the bike I've been dreaming of for the last 3 years, I actually had bough a C59 that ended up being a fake and if you look at my posts on the forum, this was always my first choice. On the ride I found the C60 sluggish compared to the other bikes, it often felt more like an endurance bike then a race bike (I am saying that in comparison to the other bikes I tested), It's is extremely grounded to the road and very different in feeling then anything I have owned or ridden in the past. I found it handle the hills well both going up and down, acceleration did not feel as quick as the other bikes but what can you say, the bike is a beauty and if you love what you ride you ride more often and faster. I have to say I was impressed at top speeds it still performed well. I will own a top of the line Colnago it's on my bucket list.
F8 65kms bike shop actually got mad cause I took it out so long: The F8 was my 2nd choice of bike and when I took it out it did not dissapointed, the bike has quick acceleration handles going up or downhill very well but you feel the road more then then the C60, the bike is extremely stiff and much more aero then people think, It was very easy for me to maintain my top speeds on the flats with it. After the ride the F8 was a serious contender and I have to say with MyWay you can really make this bike look amazing.
Tarmac over 750kms: The Tarmac is a very bland looking bike for me and in Canada they are everywhere but the bike was fantastic to ride, honestly I had a hard time to tell the difference between the F8 and the Tarmac. Which made buying the F8 that much more difficult as I would of been paying 4000$CDN for name and look. I found going up hill on the Tarmac better then the F8 but I would take the F8 going downhill every day of the week.
Madone 9 130kms: I did not want a trek and the first M9 I was was the greyish with a green that dealers got last year which I found ugly, however when I walked into the store and saw the new RSL I was impressed the bike was something special. The F8 and C60 are like Ferraris and Lambos but the M9 is like a Formula 1 race car. The M9 is an incredibly fast bike and it's hard not to be pushing it all the time on it as the bike wants to go fast. The thing that blew me away is that we have horrible roads in eastern Canada and this bike felt more comfortable then the other ones. The bike doesn't climb as well as the F8 or Tarmac but it really doesn't feel sluggish neither However going down the hills or on flats I was able to maintain much higher speeds and alway felt in full control of the bike. I actually got PR on every single segment on my test ride except 1 an 11degree climb which I finished with my 3rd best time. I still wasn't a fan of the brand but this bike feels like it's the start of a new generations of bikes. The only thing I am not 100% sold on is the cockpit, I found riding on the tops for too long had an odd feeling. I was shocked but the bike I dreamed of and wanted to ride again was the M9, it was special and fast and comfortable and in the RSL Edition it was gorgeous.
I don't think you can make a wrong decision with any of the bikes you buy but I bough the M9 and I am impatiently waiting for it's arrival. I wanted a boutique Italian bike filled in history with a unique paint job but ended up with one of the American brand that is anything but boutique because I realized that yes you have to love the look of the bike (which I do for my M9) but you can also love the way it makes you feel when you ride it and nothing was as special to me as the M9.
Kayrehn wrote:Pinarello - if you want the brand. Definitely not too aero. Definitely harsh.
Madone - aero and comfort plus you get to have it the way you like.
De Rosa - looks great. Probably loses out to the Madone for aero and comfort.
Think you know what I'll recommend, but usually people who even consider the Dogma will get it eventually cos it's a pinarello.
Personal biases aside do you have a source that F8 is harsh and not aero? I ask because this forum at times spews misinformation and conjecture. Plus, this is all contrary to my research and experience with 12k miles in the saddle but perhaps it is also due to my penchant for high performance and not needing a cushy ride.
Canadianbiker, nice review! Love that M9 too.
The Trek Madone 9 and Capagnolo SR EPS don't mesh well (Check the Madone 9 thread for more info). You will need to go either Shimano Di2 or Sram Etap.
In your situation, I would personally go with the Madone 9. I really love the look of the Pinarello, but I think the "My Way" options are much more limited than Trek's "Project One", so you can design a much nicer color scheme that is much more unique and personalized when going with the Trek. The color hues are much nicer from Trek P1 as well.
I personally also love the look of no exposed cables, so that is another point for the Trek.
On ride quality, all these bikes receive excellent marks, as well they should at this price point. So, you can chose any of the three.
Regarding Aero, they will all be close enough, that it won't make a difference for you. You are choosing among three elite bikes after all.
If you choose a Madone in H1 fit, it is produced in the USA and not in China (like the Pinarello). Your call if that matters to you.
In your situation, I would personally go with the Madone 9. I really love the look of the Pinarello, but I think the "My Way" options are much more limited than Trek's "Project One", so you can design a much nicer color scheme that is much more unique and personalized when going with the Trek. The color hues are much nicer from Trek P1 as well.
I personally also love the look of no exposed cables, so that is another point for the Trek.
On ride quality, all these bikes receive excellent marks, as well they should at this price point. So, you can chose any of the three.
Regarding Aero, they will all be close enough, that it won't make a difference for you. You are choosing among three elite bikes after all.
If you choose a Madone in H1 fit, it is produced in the USA and not in China (like the Pinarello). Your call if that matters to you.
I woukd choose either the Madone or the SK. The Madone when it comes to aerodynamics is the best of the 3 and since is a P1 you can get some cool color combos to, the SK looks amazing too and the couple of reviews out there says it rides great so its a tough choice beetween those 2. I almost got an SK at the end went with a Felt AR1 the deal was too good to pass up.
Canadianbiker - brilliant review. I really appreciate the time you put in. Thanks to everyone else too.
If I go for the M9 I'd run Etap with Enve wheels. The SK would be SR EPS and probably Bora Ultra wheels. Hearing a lot of support for the M9!
If I go for the M9 I'd run Etap with Enve wheels. The SK would be SR EPS and probably Bora Ultra wheels. Hearing a lot of support for the M9!
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CanadianBiker
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:34 pm
Juzonbike wrote:Canadianbiker - brilliant review. I really appreciate the time you put in. Thanks to everyone else too.
If I go for the M9 I'd run Etap with Enve wheels. The SK would be SR EPS and probably Bora Ultra wheels. Hearing a lot of support for the M9!
I went Etap for the bike, I don't have any experience on it except a few buddies of mine that are using it and they loved it. As for the wheels I was considering Enve or the Bora with the Shimano/SRAM Hub but the bike I test rode had the Bont Aeolus wheels 5/7 and I decided to give them a shot. I'm supposed to get the bike next week so I will let you know how they ride.
I went through exactly the same debate myself a few months ago. Finally, I opted for the DeRosa mainly due to the "exclusivity" of the brands (DeRosa + Pininfarina) whatever that means combined with a definite lower price that the the F8 and M9. I have actually managed to build the bike on a SR EPS V3 groupset while that would not be the case with the other two, taking into account the price of the frames.
Had to wait longer for the SK than my Project One SpeedConcept and even longer than an F8 not in stock. I also had to trust my instincts, ordering a frameset I have not touched or seen real before, not to mention about test riding. Apparently all went well, the bike looks beautiful, rides smooth, feels fast and curves so sharp, so really sharp! Verdict: dont buy one, I need mine to stay exclusive ;o)
Had to wait longer for the SK than my Project One SpeedConcept and even longer than an F8 not in stock. I also had to trust my instincts, ordering a frameset I have not touched or seen real before, not to mention about test riding. Apparently all went well, the bike looks beautiful, rides smooth, feels fast and curves so sharp, so really sharp! Verdict: dont buy one, I need mine to stay exclusive ;o)
Trek SpeedConcept 9.9 Project One, Basso Diamante SV, DeRosa SK (sold), Orbea Orca Gold 6430gr, Orbea Aqua, Tommasini Tecno, FM-066SL 6480gr, Kinesis RaceLight T2, Trek Superfly 100, Orbea Alma 29, Specialized Enduro S-Works 29, KTM EXC-250
Canadianbiker - that combo sounds like the same as I would go for it I pick the M9 - those wheels would be easier to pick, but they did say I could swap to Enve.
GASer - thanks for your comments. I also would have to order the SK unseen. What wheels did you pick? How's the bike feel to ride? As per the reviews? Comfortable?
GASer - thanks for your comments. I also would have to order the SK unseen. What wheels did you pick? How's the bike feel to ride? As per the reviews? Comfortable?
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