C4 Joker

[tyger]

Hello guys!

First post on the forum and it's for a heavy bike... But I'm told Weight Weenieism is a state of mind, and I definitely have it. One of my hobbies is RC cars and I have been weighing every single component for as long as I can remember. Also, this is my first bike forum and I just wanted to hang out with the cool kids.

For now there is no weight list, I just want to gather some input from you guys first and give myself time to think about where this will go. Here is a picture of what I am starting off with:

[tyger]

Don’t pay attention to the stem/bars/saddle/wheels, they’re just placeholders. Now for a bit of background info: this bike was my dad’s, it was given to him and it has not been ridden very much, neither by the previous owner nor by my old man. Based on the wear of some parts, I would guesstimate that the bike has seen less than 3000km, but it might be half that. The bike has a few scratches and paint chips here and there, nothing major. I might touch them up or I might choose to live with it, it’s not a major concern either way. The bike came with a very clean pair of Spinergy Rev Xs, which I have put on my local craigslist. My brother has cannibalized the DA derailleurs for his own bike so they are not lost, and these days he can’t ride anyway, so the components are not seeing any kind of mileage. Otherwise the 7700 groupset is complete including the headset and the (seized up) seatpost, but minus the wheel hubs, obviously.

Questions for you guys:
-Am I going to regret selling the Rev Xs? Not to ride, but as a museum piece 20 years from now.
-How crucial is it that I keep the groupset original? Now I want complete groupsets on my bikes, and I prefer using period-correct components, but the silver does not look all that great on the orange frame and with carbon wheels, plus the cabling at the front of the bike could be a bit messy with 7700 shifters. Honestly at this stage I could see myself throwing a modern, black 105 on this thing. That will probably be lighter and maybe even look better. How much of a sacrilege would that be? Silly as it sounds, the DA seatpost and headset are the main things which make me hesitate (apart from shelling out the 500 bucks, that is). There is just something about a clean and complete high-end groupset…
-Also: what’s with the two sensors? One on the left chainstay and one on the forks. And what’s with the black electrical tape?

[kgt]

ΙΜΗΟ there is no point in putting modern components on this frame. Make it 'period correct' with your Spinergy wheelset (no, don't sell your Rev Xs!) and your old DA groupset and I am sure that you will enjoy it and that it will look and ride great.

Otherwise sell everything to someone who will appreciate what you have and keep your money for a modern bike.

[ms6073]

Also, this is my first bike forum and I just wanted to hang out with the cool kids.

You are definitely in the wrong place then!

[ms6073]

ΙΜΗΟ there is no point in putting modern components on this frame. Make it 'period correct'

Yeah, but just think how cool that bike would be with an 1X Etap wireless group, carbon bars and carbon post!

[kgt]

nah...

[C36]

A c4 is always special. Marco Bonfanti frames were some of the only real monocoque frames. The joker was really a very stiff frame and curious how it is in today’s stds?

What version of the Rev-x do you have? Any second or third generation are really unique in terms of stiffness


——————
2018: Cannondale SSevo2HM : 5860g
2000: R4000 caad5: junior bike restauration
1995: Indurain‘s Pinarello: restauration project

[mike]

that needs sram etap

[tyger]

I honestly can’t tell if you guys are joking about the etap thing. I feel like I’m low key being hazed, haha.

More seriously, thanks for the warm welcome. Sarcastic or not you’ve convinced me to keep the Rev Xs (and the Dura-Ace gruppo; but more on that later). I can’t recall where I found a description of each generation of Spinergys but I seem to recall that mine were 2nd gen, with the spaced-out bearings. Stiffness is hardly a matter anyway, I have zero intention of riding them except maybe around the block just to say I did. Those things, in good condition as they are, gave me a bad vibe the moment I laid eyes on them. Rivets through carbon fiber, really? And that was before I read the horror stories. Nah, not for me. But I knew in my bones that the collector in me was going to kick himself 20 years down the road if I sold them. I could just picture myself begging a guy over the internet to take my two grand for a beat-up pair just so I could hang them in my living room. Or something. The wheels are staying right where they are.

I’ve started taking the bike apart and took a few pictures on the scales. Will post them later if you guys want me to. The electrical tape was used to cover some nasty scratches (ugh…). The rear sensor was for cadence (duh…). So two mysteries solved. I have to say it’s not hard to find pictures of Jokers but there is little info on the history of the brand. The name Bonfanti did come up though.

It turns out the seatpost was not really stuck, it was more the clamping system which had bitten into the post. Everything came off with no hassle in the end. Just to whet your appetite, I’m attaching a picture of the seat clamping assembly. One screw, one nut and one spacer wedging themselves against the post. Everything is stainless steel. LOL

[mike]

i am serious about the etap as it will make the bike more enjoyable. to put something like mavic mektronic, which would look good, is not the most reliable and servicing is impossible given that mavic is going through a lot of issues. but if you are just going to go around the block i would not put etap and just do regular mechanical shifting

[schs]

Always nice to see these frames. Mine is with the Mektronic, and yes, shifting happens sometimes, sometimes not. Works as designed



I posted some more infos in a separate thread.

[tyger]

@mike: I am honestly not sure how etap would make the bike more enjoyable. Now maybe you regard etap (or electronic shifting in general) as more enjoyable, but why do you suggest it specifically for this bike? Genuine question. Granted, it might make the bike look better by getting rid of the cables along the down tube, but then again I think it would look very anachronistic. To be clear, I do intend to ride the bike in proper outings, just not with the Rev Xs.

@schs: I had stumbled upon your thread when googling for pictures. Gorgeous build, very tasteful. Easily the nicest I could find. You make the bike look good, and that is no small feat! Plus the "proper" wheels and period-correct electronic shifting... just awesome. Mine will never look half as good. Chapeau!

While I'm here, does anyone know why the Rev Xs are almost the go-to wheels for Jokers? Is it a simple historical accident, as in both the bike and the frame were the hot futuristic carbon gear of the late 1990s? Or is there more to it? Maybe C4 only sold the bike with those wheels right off the peg?

Another question: a surprising number of Joker pictures show the bike with aftermarket forks. Any clue why? My forks have a minor clearance issue with 25mm tires (picture attached) but that's hardly grounds for buying new forks in my book. I'd just run 23's.

[schs]

@mike: I am honestly not sure how etap would make the bike more enjoyable. Now maybe you regard etap (or electronic shifting in general) as more enjoyable, but why do you suggest it specifically for this bike? Genuine question. Granted, it might make the bike look better by getting rid of the cables along the down tube, but then again I think it would look very anachronistic. To be clear, I do intend to ride the bike in proper outings, just not with the Rev Xs.

@schs: I had stumbled upon your thread when googling for pictures. Gorgeous build, very tasteful. Easily the nicest I could find. You make the bike look good, and that is no small feat! Plus the "proper" wheels and period-correct electronic shifting... just awesome. Mine will never look half as good. Chapeau!

Thanks!

While I'm here, does anyone know why the Rev Xs are almost the go-to wheels for Jokers? Is it a simple historical accident, as in both the bike and the frame were the hot futuristic carbon gear of the late 1990s? Or is there more to it? Maybe C4 only sold the bike with those wheels right off the peg?

I posted a french review of the C4, you can find it here. The bike reviewed is equipped with Mavic Cosmic wheels. I think C4 sold only the frameset, not complete bikes.

[schs]

I found another review of carbon bike from 1998, linked here (german). I had some of these bikes in my collection The C4 Joker won the recommondation of the reviewers.

[schs]

...While I'm here, does anyone know why the Rev Xs are almost the go-to wheels for Jokers? Is it a simple historical accident, as in both the bike and the frame were the hot futuristic carbon gear of the late 1990s? Or is there more to it? Maybe C4 only sold the bike with those wheels right off the peg?
...

By the way: when I looked around for a wheelset for my C4 my fist idea was to use Nimble Crosswind trispokes. I think these would match even better than the RevX wheels. At that time I couldn't find a set of Crosswinds in good shape so I used the RevX.