Time crunched training

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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Tapeworm
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by Tapeworm

As KWalker has expanded on there are many ways to "skin the FTP cat", some have been proven to be better than others but most get to the same point... usually. And as he said periodisation is not doing only one thing for a few months. It used to be back in the day, over the off, riders would in some regards come back to racing "untrained" (sometimes with a gut). Nowadays most pros won't stop training and racing. One WC I've met comes to Oz in the European winter and races quite a few time trials for example. The off season doesn't really exist any more. It may involve different training, but training nonetheless.

My little schedule will work very well... until it doesn't. And as Geoff mentions writing your own structured program is very hard. I can do it for others but find it difficult to do my own (coach train thyself??) This is where a coach or the like can start implementing structure and periodisation to ensure improvement continues.
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

by Weenie


KWalker
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by KWalker

Your last point is why I hired a coach. I'm currently coaching 3 riders and don't find it tough, but I found training myself to be awful last year. I would completely overreact if my ride was bad, do way too much work if I had a good week, and constantly find a reason to change something halfway through.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
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devinci
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by devinci

KWalker wrote:Your last point is why I hired a coach. I'm currently coaching 3 riders and don't find it tough, but I found training myself to be awful last year. I would completely overreact if my ride was bad, do way too much work if I had a good week, and constantly find a reason to change something halfway through.


Totally agree. That is why I will probably stick with my coach untill:

1- he doesnt want to coach me anymore

OR

2- I drop cycling

KWalker
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by KWalker

Also- test often. A test is actually a good FTP workout when done right (warm up, 5m effort, then 2x20). Also, it can show you if you've actually under or overtrained (yah, its possible when time crunched in some cases) and if your diet, rest, and everything else are in line.

I once read the general rule that if you don't improve in power, HR:power, decoupling, or some other tangible metric (even PE) then you've done it wrong. If these are worse than you've overtrained. If they're the same then you might have undertrained. If they're improving even by a single watt then you're making progress. Its really hard to undertrain enough to lose fitness on an ambitious time-crunched program with lots of different intervals although you can stagnate over time and have 0 net gains.

Remember that wattage is only one part of the equation. Stress, recovery, diet, etc. also make a huge difference.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
Gramz
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ty-ro
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by ty-ro

How much can I expect to pay for good monthly coaching? Someone who will look at my tests and formulate a plan towards my goals, then check back in later to see if I on my way to meetings them and if things need to be changed, etc,

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Tapeworm
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by Tapeworm

Depends a lot on the coach, prices range from $20-150 per month depending on your needs, how much feedback you want, whether the coaching is done in person (like at races etc). However it is not always a case of you get what you pay for. Some even offer their services for free... if you're lucky to find one of those - clubs can be a good source of coaches who do this.
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

KWalker
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by KWalker

I pay the Peaks Group Silver level, which is $205. I could have gone with much cheaper coaches or online coaches, but I wanted someone that had coached riders in my area that actually win races and develop. I know a ton of people with coaches that pay less, but have very few results and haven't really improved over the years after their initial burst of progress. I chose a coach that has worked with everyone from pros to masters racers and what he said really struck a chord with me more than the convos I had with other coaches. When he was breaking down race-specific skills we would work on, talking about planning recovery time, knew the exact pattern of the races that I am going to race, and mentioned that he won't spend the year doing generic FTP workouts it made a lot of sense.

A ton of lower level programs are just cookie cutter templates that coaches and services have written up and given to many different types of clients. Even from there some coaches really do not have an advanced knowledge of physiology beyond what Google, the Wattage List, and a few webinars could provide for you. It was astounding to interview with coaches that wanted $150 a month, but were more ignorant than I am and seemed to only understand power zones, but nothing really outside of those metrics. To me coaching is a lot more.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
Gramz
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koolstof
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by koolstof

As already said, there are many ways to maximise your base training. The big point I'd like to get across is that when push comes to shove, you have to be fit for purpose... being able to smash out back to back 5 hour sessions may matter when you are a pro, but when you are an amateur racing once, maybe twice a week, it really isn't going to help you win races.

My circumstances changed this year, and I radically changed my training accordingly. I found myself winning more than before. Reason being was that I spent far more of my winter working hard, not just banging the hours in. Funnily enough, when the real hard work was happening building to the season, I was able to take it, adn fresher accordingly.

Sometimes you have to accept that you aren't world class to step up to your real potential... if that makes sense.

I'd also say there is a difference between sports science and coaching. A well respected sports scientist advised that I should base my training on purely 4-5 hour tempo sessions. Physiologically this would apparently have the best response, but the reality is, I'd crack mentally if not physically very quickly.
www.koolstofcoaching.com - where cycling dreams come true... sometimes!

worstshotever
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by worstshotever

Anyone read the short piece in the latest Velo[news] purporting to provide a physiological basis for why lots of slow base in winter makes sense? Is there any truth to the claims about heart/stroke volume maximization?

pagey
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by pagey

Most training plans I have seen reference peaking for a few races per season. However I race a 9 month MTB Enduro season that consists of 6hr races approx every 4 weeks.

How would you peak every 4 weeks?

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Tapeworm
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by Tapeworm

Very easily. Though defining "peaking" for a race simply means to structure your training so that you are at the theoretical limit of what your training can afford you in the time available. Hence you can have many peaks in a season. But it is not generally your absolute genetic limit. This is usually saved for very crucial points. For pros it may be the Tour or the Olympics etc. For the rest of us it may be the State Crit Champs etc (though most of us will never hit our absolute limit).
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

yeaux
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Location: Michigan, USA

by yeaux

Besides Peaks Coaching Group and Fascat, can anybody suggest any online based coaches? There aren't any in my area that I'm aware of and have been considering trying one out in the future.

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Tapeworm
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by Tapeworm

I highly recommend Ric Stern and his crew, www.RSTSport.com
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

KWalker
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by KWalker

Do not bother with Fascat.

Although not in your area, USAC might have links to some good services and coaches depending on your ability level. Where are you located?
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
Gramz
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yeaux
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Location: Michigan, USA

by yeaux

Detroit area in Michigan. USAC site yields no responses. Training Peaks site returns some results, but I get the impression it isn't very difficult to be affiliated with Training Peaks.

by Weenie


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