Tour’s ridiculous tyre test and their questionable findings.

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Amadeus
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by Amadeus

I know TOUR is highly regarded on this forum but now they really made a big mistake.

Until now I always did believe that TOUR was a magazine that was reasonable independent and did not favour the companies that advertise in their magazine.

Call me naïve…

Now I know better! IMHO TOUR actually did favour its advertising client....

“TOUR Magazine” again tested a bunch of all-round clincher tyres.
Same test-protocol as last year.

In addition to the former test they added a kind of highly ridiculous “kick scooter” test.
This test was performed on a wet road to check cornering capacity under wet conditions. The corner they tested had a small radius of only 12,5 meters. (not realistic).

Why is the “kick scooter” that ridiculous?
Because;
- on a bike you deliver traction/power on the rear wheel (not on kick scooter).
- on a bike your position is different then on a “kick scooter”.
- on a bike the point of gravity is complete different then on kick scooter.
- on a kick scooter every kick delivers a side push that is of influence.
- on the pictures you see a self build kick-scooter where front and rear wheel are fixed in two Kinessis aluminium forks (rear fixed). The rear wheel is a pretty stiff Campagnolo wheel and the front a radial spokes wheel. This kick-scooter is a self build vehicle that is performing not even near a modern racing bicycle in a corner.

There is more but this is enough for now.

According to the test TOUR performed the Continental 4000s is the best tyre again.
And TOUR also concludes that Michelin Pro3Race is much worse cornering in wet conditions.
Michelin hardly advertises in TOUR and Continental spends huge amounts of advertising money in TOUR magazine (keep this in mind!).

All other tested tyres are of a lesser interest to me and serious cyclists.

My own experience and quite thorough research on tyres doesn’t correspondent with the findings in TOUR.

Actually the Continental 4000s is a good clincher …BUT:
1- According to my own findings. It’s not the truth that under wet conditions the Continental 4000s corners so much better then a Michelin Pro3Race clincher, like in TOUR’s test findings. Actually I found Michelin Pro3Race a bit better in grip and handling then the Continental 4000s. Especially under wet road conditions. This is not in-line with the finding of TOUR magazine.

2- On rolling resistance I don’t agree with TOUR either. Actually I had both tyres tested with my SRM. Equal circumstances under same tyre pressure (new tyres) and after 20 minutes tyre warming on a classic Tacx Rollertrack (which is actually a much better condition then real road condition). In my own simple test Michelin Pro3Race consumed les wattage then Continental 4000s.

I don’t believe in the stupid kick-scooter test where the cornering capacity of the tyres under wet conditions is concerned. Since IMHO this test is not representing real cycling conditions in the wet.

About rolling resistance my own findings are different (I found the MichelinPro3Race slightly better then Continental 4000s) but that was just a simple test with a SRM and on a Tacx Rollertrack not a scientific test at all, but usefully and simple practical.

I would like to read your comments, findings and ideas about this test and your own findings (the latter only if you have ridden both clincher tyres).
My bike is Italian so it is Nervosa and of course has Anorexia I like them thin!
GIOS "New" Carbon Ultra 2006 Campa Record+Special parts.
GIOS "New" A90 2008 Campa Record+Special parts. My winter and vacation bike.

by Weenie


Steponas
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by Steponas

Why are so many WWs obsessed with tests conducted by magazines ?

Phill P
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by Phill P

What is a kick scooter? I don't think we have such things over here (or at least they are called something else)

GrahamB
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by GrahamB

Phill P wrote:What is a kick scooter? I don't think we have such things over here (or at least they are called something else)


It's a sort of weird bicycle without bottom-bracket, I think. I've seen them used by tourists for sight-seeing in packs.... you sit on them and kick them along with your feet. Sort of where the bicycle was at in about 1820 :lol:
Graham

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Danton
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by Danton

Steponas wrote:Why are so many WWs obsessed with tests conducted by magazines ?

Probably for the very reason they came to this site, to get advice and information?

I've ridden Pro 3s and 4000s and if both are excellent, I'm preferring the Pro3s for grip. Next come the Schwalbe Ultremos and then the Continentals. There is a descent near my house, I start maybe four out of every five rides with it. In many years of riding, the road has been resurfaced twice. I know the descent perfectly. I could never reach the bottom without braking in two hairpin style bends. With Pro2s, I had to brake otherwise I had the rear wheel vibrate and begin to slide, with Pro3s, I don't need to brake. I put the Ultremos on, or use Veloflex tubs and I brake or slide. So just my opinion and obviously for my weight, pressure use, road surface and corner style.

2 wheels
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by 2 wheels

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Amadeus
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by Amadeus

Guys,

This is a kick-scooter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kick_scooter

In the Netherlands we call this a "step".

P.S.
Thanks for the pictures 2wheels!

(The edit is only the P.S.)
Last edited by Amadeus on Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My bike is Italian so it is Nervosa and of course has Anorexia I like them thin!
GIOS "New" Carbon Ultra 2006 Campa Record+Special parts.
GIOS "New" A90 2008 Campa Record+Special parts. My winter and vacation bike.

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STARNUT
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by STARNUT

Steponas wrote:Why are so many WWs obsessed with tests conducted by magazines ?
'


move over.......... why Tour? I don't hold their tests in high regard because they fail to RIDE THE DAMN BIKES! Or at minimize it's importance.


So your telling me they tested bike tires.................... not on a phuckin' bike :lol:. Cool.

We need our resident SkEpTiC to come over and tell us why ad dollars directly translate to good tests. Paging..........

Starnut
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Amadeus
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by Amadeus

Danton,

I fully agree with you (again)
On wet roads:

1-Michelin Pro3Race
2-Schwalbe Ultremo (second generation)
3-Continental 4000s on par with Michelin Pro2Race.

Veloflex and Challenge open tunulars at 300tpi are a different league IMHO.
My bike is Italian so it is Nervosa and of course has Anorexia I like them thin!
GIOS "New" Carbon Ultra 2006 Campa Record+Special parts.
GIOS "New" A90 2008 Campa Record+Special parts. My winter and vacation bike.

justkeepedaling
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by justkeepedaling

Amadeus wrote:Danton,

I fully agree with you (again)
On wet roads:

1-Michelin Pro3Race
2-Schwalbe Ultremo (second generation)
3-Continental 4000s on par with Michelin Pro2Race.

Veloflex and Challenge open tunulars at 300tpi are a different league IMHO.


+1 for Veloflex and your ranking. I concur 100%

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rico
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by rico

I'm sorry if this is a naive question, but...why don't they ride a proper bike with the tyres on it? And see how that works?

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CharlesM
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by CharlesM

Because the COG is so low on a stepper that you can really dig in and load the tires.

Not agreeing with the finding, but the lean angle and force you can put into one of those scooters cornering is insane... So good that you can outrun security people on bikes in tight areas :twisted:

But actually I wouldn't consider it valid as the tires are loaded differently on a scooter.

I also find a few other tires preferable in RR (including vittoria KS, which is why I buy them for all wheels lately, versus taking what ever is available), but it's totally seat of the pants oppinion.

tofu
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by tofu

What were their findings with regards to rolling resistance? There are several very well done independent rolling resistance tests and every one I have seen shows all tested Continental models in bottom 50% of tested tires in terms of rolling resistance. Even when tested with latex tubes the continentals still have worse rolling resistance than many other brands when tested with butyl tubes. I can't complain though, I see a lot of people running these at races and it is great when I have a 15 to 20 watt advantage before the race even starts.

fdegrove
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by fdegrove

Hi,

Sorry for the OT but:

I also find a few other tires preferable in RR (including vittoria KS, which is why I buy them for all wheels lately, versus taking what ever is available), but it's totally seat of the pants oppinion.


I often see you push (gently that is) the Vitto KS tubbies and now the corresponding slick tyres as well.
Whilst I'm fully aware of the theoritical advantage of a slick thread versus a profiled one, I'm more than a little confused that in tests the regular threaded ones actually show lower RR....

In my, admittedly limited, experience with slicks I must admit they always seemed to roll better than one could reasonably expect (Pariba Evolution, Criterium (both of them above average but not top notch performers) and the amazinlgly good value for money Ritchey Slick tubbies).
They all do have the same Achilles heel however, they're pretty prone to small cuts which unfortunately have a knack for slitting the slick thread to the point of rendering it useless. This situation does not seem to occur so readily with profiled tyres.

While I think the Vittoria slick is basically the same a their regular thread (split centre and sidewalls), I wonder where this preference of yours stems from.

TIA, :wink:
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

by Weenie


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CharlesM
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by CharlesM

Firstly, I'm not "pushing' anything gently or otherwise. I just have a preference and it's for a reason...

I like Vittoria because I work pretty hard to keep my tire and tubes the same during testing, for both clincher and tubular for all bikes and wheels.

The fact that they're not only good tires but also make corsa and open corse for the same tread patterns in both tire types with the sane TPI and material and compounds lets me take one of the biggest variables out of testing.

The fact that they are also widely available helps too.


And before it's assumed, I don't think that anyone not testing things needs to think any of my reasons valid... But I think everyone testing things should (and hold pressures the same as well) and have not noticed anyone else taking the time or expense (I just spent $700 on tires for both spares and several wheel sets).


I have a preference for the KS that it initially came from pretty much the same place as you, simply thinking lower RR was to be had with no tread (note too that "tread" is an overly simple generalization given lots of patterns). I also spoke to two guys from pretty good tire companies (Michelin and Vittoria) and got the info that their smoother tires had lower RR...

Lastly, I live in Arizona and tread here is a bit of a waste given we have so little rain.



I'm not sure that I have seen any test where a single brand that produced both treaded and smooth tire with the same casing and compound has been tested? Maybe a link would help.

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