Ryan's Disc Bike #4 (Litespeed T1sl)

[RyanH]

Extralite shipped the stem super quick:

[RyanH]

Also in my order were these T47 cups that were hiding in the spare parts section of Extralite's site. These clock in at 30g lighter than my THM T47 bottom bracket and appear to use an ISIS tool to install then you install the bearings. I'll wait until I get the Doon Crankset to install.

[Juanmoretime]

Ryan, the bike is looking great! Where did you get your pink decals made? Love the look.

[RyanH]

The Litespeed decals came from the factory like that. The SRM decals were custom from CycleDecal. They made a batch of decals for 3 bolt lids and Cannondale lids on a few different colors.

[OtterSpace]

Love to see updates on this bike. It is a living and adapting top end build that reflects very discerning choices and highlights a place where I can see many of the more picky weight weenies ending up at after experiencing a wide spectrum of builds.

Why did you drop the Elilee X-Novanta & Xcadey PM? Any issues with the crankset side of that combo? Not often we see true feedback on such bleeding edge parts.

I'm assuming the swap is because the info you went over regarding PM inconsistencies earlier with SRM being your go to. Your SRM being 3bolt likely drove the move to Doon as well but I'm just guessing.

[RyanH]

I got some more time on the Extralite stem and it seems pretty solid. I was highly concerned with the extremely low torque specs: 2-3nm for the steerer and 1.5nm to 2nm for the bars. My history with Extralite stems isn't great either. Back in 2016 I swore off them when the one I was using at the time negatively impacted handling. So, I was a little apprehensive when I got another one but several people I've spoken to over the recent years have said they worked well. It appears that over the years they managed to increase the stiffness while keeping the weight roughly the same.

Regarding the Elilee, I didn't put a ton of miles on it but I got rid of it because I wasn't a huge fan of the aesthetics. That was more so driven by me moving it to the English since I wanted to run the SiSL2 on the Litespeed for better shoe clearance. Now that I continue having issues with the bearings making noise with the Cannondale cranks (tried my other Si cranks too), I kinda wish I kept the Elilee since there's a much bigger weight difference between the Elilee and the Praxis than with the SiSL2 (when factoring in the BB). Functionally, it seemed stiff enough (nothing I was able to feel or detect) and the design seemed well thought out. The Xcadey was reading high by about 8% which was fixable via the app. The Sigeyi was giving numbers similar to the SRM out of the box. So, they seemed good enough and better than my experience with the new Quarqs.

[OtterSpace]

Regarding the Elilee

Good to hear the Elilee X-Novanta treated you well. Seeing someone who is particular get on with them well helps move it up the list in my mind. I personally couldn't get over the looks, $/g delta of about $9/g to E1, general unfounded concerns of warranty support and stealth revisions that are typical for such brands. However, it is a world beater innovate product which is great to see and it looks a lot better on chunkier tube bikes and with chainrings that have more material.

If you didn't already have the 3 bolt SRM and were buying new today what do you think you would have gone with?

Elilee X-Novanta (~275g) & Sigeyi cinch (~105g) ≈ 380g / $1,099
SRAM Red E1 (~305g + 8g bolts) & Sigeyi 8 bolt (~105g) ≈ 418g / $743
THM (~218g + 112g DUB spindle) & SRM (~115g) ≈ 445g / $2,749
Praxis Doon (sub 340g) & SRM 3 bolt (~115g) ≈ sub 455g / $1,614
Look (~252g + 112g DUB spindle) & SRM (~115g) ≈ 479g / $2,249
or something else? Cybrei works with SRM, where it is around the weight of the THM SRM option, and Sigeyi cinch but its ~320g at the same cost as E1 so due for an update or cost reduction. THM Clavicula SE with PM is about 320g / $2500 but is a PM that hasn't run through the gauntlet and takes forever to source. Elilee X310 is similar in weight to E1 at a slightly lower price but less compelling unless you want sub 160mm. Easton EC90 SL, Incolor Skypivot, Red D1, SiSL2, Praxis Zayante, Rotor options, and others are out classed in 2024 for >24mm axles when going in crankset PM.

[RyanH]

I don't know if you can say SiSL2 is outclassed since it's a lighter system than many of the options you listed. Also, keep in mind 4 bolt chainrings tend to be heavier than the lightest 5 bolt options.

If the requirement was that I had to buy everything new, that's a hard question. Objectively, Elilee and Sigeyi makes most sense but it's not what the heart wants. 165mm also limits my options. The THM SRM only comes in a hacked up version for 165mm. So, I don't know.

With that being said, I have what I have because that's what I want, irrespective of cost.

[OtterSpace]

I don't know if you can say SiSL2 is outclassed since it's a lighter system than many of the options you listed. Also, keep in mind 4 bolt chainrings tend to be heavier than the lightest 5 bolt options.

If the requirement was that I had to buy everything new, that's a hard question. Objectively, Elilee and Sigeyi makes most sense but it's not what the heart wants. 165mm also limits my options. The THM SRM only comes in a hacked up version for 165mm. So, I don't know.

With that being said, I have what I have because that's what I want, irrespective of cost.

Thanks for taking the time to humor my odd specific question. If it helps know that your feedback opened me up to dumping Quarq and trying Sigeyi depsite my initial hangups.

Again I view your builds as going towards were I see more picky long time bike nerds going if they stick with the hobby long term. I really need to try high end Ti when I settle down a bit as many seem to end up there the longer they remain in the hobby. Your recent builds represent almost a more enlightened state after going through so many bikes to see what you prefer.

The heart wants what it wants and in many ways its better to just go with what you want instead of investing a ton of time buying, trying, and selling what you don't like if you already know what you really want.

On another note given your love of Shigura you might be interested in my write up on Shigolo which unfortunately is verbose, and a work in progress, but there is a lot to explore.

-----
I debated touching on SiSL2 as I knew it would be contentious and potentially derailing in a personal gallery thread without proving any deeper point. It was way ahead of its time for ages and is legendary. However, running 165mm you must know how hard it would be to source a 2nd or 3rd new in 2024, or beyond, so its hard to recommend investing in a maiting spider now to support that platform for what is a semi consumable item when viewed in 5 year+ terms. For those who already invested it was a wise choice that stood the test of time and should continue to be enjoyed.

[RyanH]

Has anyone had stability issues going up tire sizes? I have a pair of Veloflex 32mm that I went to try out and descending in a straight line feels sketchy above 30 mph. Mid ride I lowered the pressure out of curiosity and I think it felt sketchier at lower speed. Running 28mm tires at 45 psi, I have never had an issue, the bike has always been rock solid. Running the 32s at 40 psi and the bike feels super twitchy/darty. I remounted them to see if I messed up but the feeling is still there. Spinning the wheel, it seems perfectly true and no wobbles or such.

When I ran 32mm and 35mm on the Crux (in addition to 28mm), I didn't experience this or at least not to a degree that was worth remembering. They were also less supple tires and I probably ran them at higher pressure than I am trying now.

[gurk700]

Has anyone had stability issues going up tire sizes? I have a pair of Veloflex 32mm that I went to try out and descending in a straight line feels sketchy above 30 mph. Mid ride I lowered the pressure out of curiosity and I think it felt sketchier at lower speed. Running 28mm tires at 45 psi, I have never had an issue, the bike has always been rock solid. Running the 32s at 40 psi and the bike feels super twitchy/darty. I remounted them to see if I messed up but the feeling is still there. Spinning the wheel, it seems perfectly true and no wobbles or such.

When I ran 32mm and 35mm on the Crux (in addition to 28mm), I didn't experience this or at least not to a degree that was worth remembering. They were also less supple tires and I probably ran them at higher pressure than I am trying now.

Going bigger makes it more stable for me if anything
I wonder if you have a dud tire? It happens, as rare as that is.

[OtterSpace]

Sounds like something exacerbating a radial wheel imbalance if lower pressure doesnt help and the wheels are laterally true.

I saw something simlar on my rear reynolds ATR 700c with rene herse / compass 35mm marked 38mm WAM tires. Also as tire width goes up tire weight typically goes up as well making any imbalance in the tire contribute a larger % impact to the setup, especially if you are running very light wheels.

Sealant will make radial wheel balance worse especially if the bike sits for awhile and drys up in spots at the bottom of the tire slowly over time. I'd try balancing the wheel without sealant using lead golf tape on a truing stand and then see how it goes before adding back sealant.

A quick way to feel for raidal imbalance is to hold the seatpost with your rear wheel off the floor. While in your hardest gear spin the crank hard to really get the rear going and feel how much kick you feel at the seatpost as the wheel spins.

[RyanH]

I debated touching on SiSL2 as I knew it would be contentious and potentially derailing in a personal gallery thread without proving any deeper point. It was way ahead of its time for ages and is legendary. However, running 165mm you must know how hard it would be to source a 2nd or 3rd new in 2024, or beyond, so its hard to recommend investing in a maiting spider now to support that platform for what is a semi consumable item when viewed in 5 year+ terms. For those who already invested it was a wise choice that stood the test of time and should continue to be enjoyed.

I had some additional thoughts on this and the original question:

1) If I needed to buy a new crankset/pm today, I'd probably order the Elilee X-Novanto with 5 bolt Sigeyi or the X310. I'm not sure the carbon spindled version is worth the 40g savings. Time will only tell how durable that design is. I'm not sure how a delaminated DS insert will manifest in a failure (spontaneous?) and if that's worth the extra weight savings. I'm 60/40 on it, favoring buying another.
2) Regarding the SiSL, it's a pretty cheap option second hand. Since I can't get my frame to play nice with the FSA T47 BB and not creak after a few hundred miles, I'm actually considering purging my Hollowgram 165mm and SRM 110 spider collection. If a crankset/pm cost $600 second hand and lasted 5 years, isn't that a decent useful life? I feel like people place too much emphasis on what may be viable down the road.
3) Why not the SRM PM9? They changed their algorithm and it tends to read higher than my PM7s. I sent my PM9 in and had them check it and their response was that it was reading accurately. That wouldn't be an issue if I could adjust the calibration myself but I cannot and reading a little higher makes it a challenge to compare performances over time. PM7s I can validate against a known mass and check and adjust it as needed. PM9 removed the ability to do that which I find irritating. I guess this leads to a different question of what is true north. I've owned at least a half dozen early gen Quarqs and dozens of PM7s and they've all read consistently with each other. It seems nearly everything I've purchased in the last 4 years reads 5-8% higher than that generation. Multiple Quarq Dzeros were 8% high, the Xcadey was 8% high, the PM9 was around 8% high(er). Kind of an odd coincidence.

[Singlish]

Part of the issue for me is that Hollowgram cranks look so good on 'Dale/Extralite rings with classic frames, the newer super light carbon ones are all so chunky that they seem out of place unless it's on a fat tubed aero bike.

[OtterSpace]

1) Elilee X-Novanto
2) SiSL
3) I guess this leads to a different question of what is true north

1)It's hard to truely know how durable Elilee X-Novanto is but if it were junk I think we would have seen some failures posted by now. Given you ride in California unless you live and ride near the beach or indoors on a trainer frequently I wouldn't be too worried about a catastrophic failure without any warnings; especially given how hyper focused you are on addressing creaking. CA is one of the worlds most ideal climates for avoiding corrosion and the spindle diameter carbon to metal bond is fairly large vs an overfast axle. If I were looking to buy a 20 year old jeep I'd rather buy a higher milage one from CA than a lower milage one from the mid west to wrench on. Basically I think you are likely a near ideal use case for mittigating X-Novanto safety concerns. I'd be more concerned about running any bearings directly on the spindle slowly eating into the carbon OD but if you run plastic spacers in the bearing ID like many BBs do now that concern is gone and you replace the cheap spacer if it wears. If the X-Novanto is worth the cost is a personal decision. If I were in your position I'd likely go Elilee X-Novanto if it integrates well to your BB and you get on well with the aesthetic.

X310 is on the same g & $ tier but E1 just edges it objectively while subjectives matter. To me X310 doesn't make sense unless the buyer is already bought into a cinch ecosystem, they like a chucky asethetic, or need less than 160mm. Red E1 all day over X310 and E1 logos can be easily hidden with vinyl wrap.

2) I'm aligned to this view and what Singlish posted but I still think its not worth seeking out for most people. Its kind of like the Red22 BB30 cranks that many were basically giving away for a time that fills a specific WW niche which I personally run on a build but wouldn't recommend most look for in 2024. Basically same goes for rim brake bikes tbh and every rim bike I own will remain in my fleet longer than my current disc builds.

3) Thanks for sharing this perspective. I've used power to varying degrees for 8 years now but havent gotten to the point of micro comparing PM between my bikes. Its nice to see others struggles and learn from them as I could see myself having similar frustrations down the line.