I guess that's why she stays with you.
"They're not making their bikes any faster" - an outsider's perspective on weight weenies
Moderator: robbosmans
- HammerTime2
- Posts: 5813
- Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
- Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
Really? Because my wife has a closet full of designer handbags from LV, prada, and whatever ones plus 3 pairs of red sole shoes that all look the same.Lucendi wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:02 pmWomen tend to care more about people and less about things while men tend to be the opposite.
I fully agree with her, but as I am a man who care more about inanimate objects. Looking through the build threads on this forum is just one impressive bike after the next, I love how ingenous solutions people come up with!
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Well now that your ask.......CyclingGiraffe wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:59 amTell me more about this "wobble wobble . . . bump crunch (pain)" frame; I'm intrigued!Nickldn wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:16 pm
Well my 2019 road bike is objectively better than my 2009 bike in every way:
2019 - 2009
Aero frame carbon - less aero frame carbon
Internal cable routing - external cables
PF ceramic BB - English thread DA steel BB
Wide and deep carbon wheels - shallow aluminium DA 7900 wheels
25mm tubs - 22mm tubs
11s Red etap electronic - 10s DA7900 mechanical
Seat with hole - solid seat
Aero bars - round shape bars
Aero carbon stem - aluminium stem
Gel bar tape - cork bar tape
Carbon 'blade' pedals - carbon 'spring' pedals
Ultra stiff frame - wobble wobble frame
Comfort (relatively) - bump crunch (pain)
Cross wind issues - cross wind issues
Aero lights - awful lights
Garmin - .......
I am measurably faster on my 2019 bike in every way, it is also far more comfortable (despite it being a Propel with ultra stiff ISP). I enjoyed riding my 2009 bike much more........go figure.
It was a Sigma tri bike carbon frame with Dedacciai carbon forks. Beautiful paint scheme.
The frame was very flexy and around the BB during hard efforts (the first thing I noticed when I switched to a Propel Advanced SL was just how stiff the BB area is, like night and day).
Yet the Dedacciai fork was rock hard and the 22mm tubs didn't help, any bumps would result in a lot of discomfort. On a smooth twisty road it was heaven, stable and predicable, but also responsive! The Propel is a lot more capable in general and I can ride it all day, but it's very very stiff and more twitchy, needs careful attention especially on descents, but also highly satisfying.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress
I'd maybe agree with her if she said Ultegra and included carbon wheels, but 105 is a boat anchor and Ultegra just performs and feels so much better, as do a pair of ~45 deep wheels. If she had upgraded to that point and said that, then sure, I'd agree anything beyond there is marginal gains in terms of seconds on the road, but performance, feel and snappiness on a climb also count for something. I think she is either selling herself a little short on that opinion or just looking to be provocative. It's true the strongest rider on the road doesn't need anything more than what she describes, but there's something to be said about feel and performance to a level a little higher than that. And then of course, as others have said, going beyond that point is as much a hobby and a love of bikes as anything else.
https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/he ... gra-201326 200g difference, little difference performance/shifting. Major price difference.Sanjuro wrote:I'd maybe agree with her if she said Ultegra and included carbon wheels, but 105 is a boat anchor and Ultegra just performs and feels so much better, as do a pair of ~45 deep wheels. If she had upgraded to that point and said that, then sure, I'd agree anything beyond there is marginal gains in terms of seconds on the road, but performance, feel and snappiness on a climb also count for something. I think she is either selling herself a little short on that opinion or just looking to be provocative. It's true the strongest rider on the road doesn't need anything more than what she describes, but there's something to be said about feel and performance to a level a little higher than that. And then of course, as others have said, going beyond that point is as much a hobby and a love of bikes as anything else.
A set of quality cables like Jagwire Elite Road just makes it better too.
Last edited by MikeD on Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I disagree. I have 105 on my Zwift training bike. It works. I wouldn't race on it or ride for training pleasure outside, but a large part of it may be I place a priority on having a certain level of feel to the components, so it is largely subjective. Still, I stand by what I said though.MikeD wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:27 pmhttps://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/he ... gra-201326 200g difference, little difference performance/shifting. Major price difference.Sanjuro wrote:I'd maybe agree with her if she said Ultegra and included carbon wheels, but 105 is a boat anchor and Ultegra just performs and feels so much better, as do a pair of ~45 deep wheels. If she had upgraded to that point and said that, then sure, I'd agree anything beyond there is marginal gains in terms of seconds on the road, but performance, feel and snappiness on a climb also count for something. I think she is either selling herself a little short on that opinion or just looking to be provocative. It's true the strongest rider on the road doesn't need anything more than what she describes, but there's something to be said about feel and performance to a level a little higher than that. And then of course, as others have said, going beyond that point is as much a hobby and a love of bikes as anything else.
A set of quality cables like Jagwire Elite Road just makes it better too.
Dunno, had 105 r7000 11s on a bike and the shifting was absolutely perfect, smooth as and with very light inputs from controls, even for front shifts. Would say it was smoother than Ultegra r6800.Sanjuro wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:40 pmI disagree. I have 105 on my Zwift training bike. It works. I wouldn't race on it or ride for training pleasure outside, but a large part of it may be I place a priority on having a certain level of feel to the components, so it is largely subjective. Still, I stand by what I said though.MikeD wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:27 pmhttps://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/he ... gra-201326 200g difference, little difference performance/shifting. Major price difference.Sanjuro wrote:I'd maybe agree with her if she said Ultegra and included carbon wheels, but 105 is a boat anchor and Ultegra just performs and feels so much better, as do a pair of ~45 deep wheels. If she had upgraded to that point and said that, then sure, I'd agree anything beyond there is marginal gains in terms of seconds on the road, but performance, feel and snappiness on a climb also count for something. I think she is either selling herself a little short on that opinion or just looking to be provocative. It's true the strongest rider on the road doesn't need anything more than what she describes, but there's something to be said about feel and performance to a level a little higher than that. And then of course, as others have said, going beyond that point is as much a hobby and a love of bikes as anything else.
A set of quality cables like Jagwire Elite Road just makes it better too.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress
With the same cables and cable runs there is no difference in shifting between 105, Ultergra, and DA. All you get is less weight and more prestige.Sanjuro wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:40 pmI disagree. I have 105 on my Zwift training bike. It works. I wouldn't race on it or ride for training pleasure outside, but a large part of it may be I place a priority on having a certain level of feel to the components, so it is largely subjective. Still, I stand by what I said though.MikeD wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:27 pmhttps://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/he ... gra-201326 200g difference, little difference performance/shifting. Major price difference.Sanjuro wrote:I'd maybe agree with her if she said Ultegra and included carbon wheels, but 105 is a boat anchor and Ultegra just performs and feels so much better, as do a pair of ~45 deep wheels. If she had upgraded to that point and said that, then sure, I'd agree anything beyond there is marginal gains in terms of seconds on the road, but performance, feel and snappiness on a climb also count for something. I think she is either selling herself a little short on that opinion or just looking to be provocative. It's true the strongest rider on the road doesn't need anything more than what she describes, but there's something to be said about feel and performance to a level a little higher than that. And then of course, as others have said, going beyond that point is as much a hobby and a love of bikes as anything else.
A set of quality cables like Jagwire Elite Road just makes it better too.
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- Location: VA
I've had r7000 and r8000 on multiple bikes, shifting performance is exactly the same, which is to say fantastic for both. There is def a slight difference in material feel/quality with r8000, and you can adjust the lever reach, which you can't do with r7000. Along with slightly less weight of course, so there are benefits to going with Ultegra. If there was 105 di2, I would get that, but there isn't, so I'll be going with Udi2 for the new bike, but for now, the r7000 is performing flawlessly.
I'd suspect your cables are at fault.Sanjuro wrote:I disagree. I have 105 on my Zwift training bike. It works. I wouldn't race on it or ride for training pleasure outside, but a large part of it may be I place a priority on having a certain level of feel to the components, so it is largely subjective. Still, I stand by what I said though.MikeD wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:27 pmhttps://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/he ... gra-201326 200g difference, little difference performance/shifting. Major price difference.Sanjuro wrote:I'd maybe agree with her if she said Ultegra and included carbon wheels, but 105 is a boat anchor and Ultegra just performs and feels so much better, as do a pair of ~45 deep wheels. If she had upgraded to that point and said that, then sure, I'd agree anything beyond there is marginal gains in terms of seconds on the road, but performance, feel and snappiness on a climb also count for something. I think she is either selling herself a little short on that opinion or just looking to be provocative. It's true the strongest rider on the road doesn't need anything more than what she describes, but there's something to be said about feel and performance to a level a little higher than that. And then of course, as others have said, going beyond that point is as much a hobby and a love of bikes as anything else.
A set of quality cables like Jagwire Elite Road just makes it better too.
No, the cables are fine. The frame is an Allez, which I use for Zwift and winter riding. It's pretty good. I like the geometry. Bit relaxed/high in the front end, but it handles well. The cable guide beneath the bottom bracket is pretty crap though, as-is routing through there, so there is an unnecessary bit of friction there that could have some effect.
Last edited by Sanjuro on Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Here is the whole enchilada leaving out geometry etcetera. You really only need wheels and shoes/pedals to get the majority of the the benefits afforded by recent advancements. Ultegra is the best value IMHO based of feel but 105 or Dura Ace or something else is all good. Its just gears in the end.MikeD wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:27 pmhttps://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/he ... gra-201326 200g difference, little difference performance/shifting. Major price difference.Sanjuro wrote:I'd maybe agree with her if she said Ultegra and included carbon wheels, but 105 is a boat anchor and Ultegra just performs and feels so much better, as do a pair of ~45 deep wheels. If she had upgraded to that point and said that, then sure, I'd agree anything beyond there is marginal gains in terms of seconds on the road, but performance, feel and snappiness on a climb also count for something. I think she is either selling herself a little short on that opinion or just looking to be provocative. It's true the strongest rider on the road doesn't need anything more than what she describes, but there's something to be said about feel and performance to a level a little higher than that. And then of course, as others have said, going beyond that point is as much a hobby and a love of bikes as anything else.
A set of quality cables like Jagwire Elite Road just makes it better too.
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
I would try a piece of liner there and if shifting changes you can run a short section through the cable guide.Sanjuro wrote:No, the cables are fine. The frame is an Allez, which I use for Zwift and winter riding. It's pretty good. I like the geometry. Bit relaxed/high in the front end, but it handles well. The cable guide beneath the bottom bracket is pretty crap though, as-is routing through there, so there is an unnecessary bit of friction there that could have some effect.
If the botton bracket cable guide is the common plastic type you can drill it out slightly and run the liner through it, for that OE look.
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