Making Weight Weenies a Better Place

News, announcements and discussions about Weight Weenies. (members, please do not start topics in here.)

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RyanH
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by RyanH

There's been some things that have gone on recently that I feel it's appropriate to open a discussion about what we all can do together to make Weight Weenies a better place. The most important thing is to remember that we are a community and we are all responsible to help shape this community into what we'd like it to be.

With that being said, I do want to address the idea that "Weight Weenies is not the place it used to be." That may be true, but the internet is not the same place it used to be either. The internet has evolved into a more hostile place than it used to be, and this forum is not immune from it. There used to be industry engineers on this forum and individuals like djconnel that would analyze, compute and quantify everything. SuperDave came back for a brief period a year or two ago, as did Damon Rinard. They left again. Not because this forum is no longer about dremeling parts, but because users have become more hostile. These types of behaviors are what we need to root out. As moderators, we cannot read every thread and keep up with everything. It's everyone's job to call out inappropriate behavior and/or flag it. Flagging is the tool that helps us moderate and keep things in check.

I need to discuss with the other moderators of what our policy will be to address the tone issues, as I think it's an increasing problem with everyone on edge dealing with the fallout of COVID but most likely it will be a zero tolerance policy of everyone involved gets a vacation.

So, what else can we do as a community to improve the forum?
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by Weenie


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Raimundo
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:55 pm
Location: Flanders

by Raimundo

RyanH wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:43 pm
There's been some things that have gone on recently that I feel it's appropriate to open a discussion about what we all can do together to make Weight Weenies a better place. The most important thing is to remember that we are a community and we are all responsible to help shape this community into what we'd like it to be.

With that being said, I do want to address the idea that "Weight Weenies is not the place it used to be." That may be true, but the internet is not the same place it used to be either. The internet has evolved into a more hostile place than it used to be, and this forum is not immune from it. There used to be industry engineers on this forum and individuals like djconnel that would analyze, compute and quantify everything. SuperDave came back for a brief period a year or two ago, as did Damon Rinard. They left again. Not because this forum is no longer about dremeling parts, but because users have become more hostile. These types of behaviors are what we need to root out. As moderators, we cannot read every thread and keep up with everything. It's everyone's job to call out inappropriate behavior and/or flag it. Flagging is the tool that helps us moderate and keep things in check.

I need to discuss with the other moderators of what our policy will be to address the tone issues, as I think it's an increasing problem with everyone on edge dealing with the fallout of COVID but most likely it will be a zero tolerance policy of everyone involved gets a vacation.

So, what else can we do as a community to improve the forum?


just today i was reading some posts that made me cringe a bit too hard, there seems to be an idea that a WW member is mostly valued by the amount of years it belongs to this comunity, not by how helpfull said member is or how polite... even if these same senior members or sometimes moderators even, come across as self entitled persons that have no problem in rudely dismissing other users.

if we keep on bunching/comparing people in levels of how important they are regarding other fellow users, there will always be sour grapes.
It's not because i'm an industry engineer or a chef cook, or if i "belong" here far longer than others that i will be better or worse than the rest of us.

As a disclosure, i spent many years (around 15 years, give or take) following this comunity, using its knowledge and applying it to my passion, bikes. Until one day, a couple of months back, i got fed up with myself and decided to join the WW comunity and pay back all the knowledge i got from here.

i too realise that not all is ok here, but please don't blame it only on the past or on the hostile newbies.

My advice is:

Engineer or stonemason, senior or junior member, we are all people that love bikes, we should not descriminate or dismiss our fellow men based on perceived status.

robertbb
Posts: 1600
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Perhaps limiting the number of posts per day/week or per thread could be considered.

There will always be forum "regulars" and "lurkers" but lately it appears as though it's the same people dominating almost every thread. Sometimes the information is useful, other times its incorrect and misleading. It's always highly opinionated.

Wish there was a way to prevent people from repeating ad nauseum how their own equipment of choice is the "best", but I guess it's on the people/person to recognise what they are doing is simple confirmation bias.

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

I spend a great deal of time on WW and I do post frequently with my goal of helping someone with whatever issues they may have based on my experiences and knowlegde. I work in the trades and have learned to help solve issues as a team which means your opinions are just that but everyone needs to pool their ideals and opinions to help create a solution. This means that you should never be offended if your ideals are not taken as "The Law and only solution". This mentality doesnt help the team move forward to find a solution but only backward through arguing about who is Right and who is Wrong. Everyone has ideals and maybe they are right and maybe they are not but if the ideals are pouring out from the team you will be going in the direction of a solution at some point. Thier will be a goose chase occaisionally but because someone takes you off course its no reason to negatively dismiss them because they are wrong or you feel they are inferior.
I think these days many ppl are easily offended and quick to criticize especially when many of us are keyboard warriors. I try not to dismiss anyone or their ideals knowingly.
Everyone should be entitled to their opinions but those opinions should only be shared not be forced unto others. Part of the reason I hang out here is to get ppls opinion on products and procedures to accomplish projects and jobs in regards to our bikes. I have made some big purchases based on information and opinions I have collected from this site and so far no regrets on any of them. Reviews on products from real ppl on this forum are huge for making a decision as to purchase or not to purchase.
We just need to treat and talk to everyone on the forum as though they are ppl standing right in front of us. Treat them with respect and dignity the way we would want to be treated ourselves. Perhaps if we cant say anything positive then we should not say anything at all.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154188
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2012 Time RXRS Ulteam Rim Brake
2008 Time VXR Rim Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

Bondurant
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:28 pm

by Bondurant

As well as what has already been mentioned, what I think has disappeared to an extent is the thoughtfulness many posters displayed on any given topic.

I'm hardly one to preach as forums aren't really a medium I choose to expound at length on, but I'd urge people to think a bit more about what they're posting.

A lot of what I see here at the moment is just mindless regurgitation of manufacturer marketing versus peoples' personal experiences and conclusions, shared to gauge opinions and perhaps change views.


beanbiken
Posts: 791
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Location: Great Southern Land

by beanbiken

bikeboy1tr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:55 am
We just need to treat and talk to everyone on the forum as though they are ppl standing right in front of us. Treat them with respect and dignity the way we would want to be treated ourselves. Perhaps if we cant say anything positive then we should not say anything at all.
Unfortunately no magic bullet but have to agree with the above and echo BB1TR’s sentiments.
BB

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kgt
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by kgt

RyanH wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:43 pm
I need to discuss with the other moderators of what our policy will be to address the tone issues, as I think it's an increasing problem with everyone on edge dealing with the fallout of COVID but most likely it will be a zero tolerance policy of everyone involved gets a vacation.
Sorry but, if you mean moderators like mdeth or nefarious then... I am not optimistic.

Anyway, two things I do not like:

- All these new forum members who are practically working on marketing departments and post only to promote a specific brand. Not an easy thing to do, I know, but if you don;t likehalf of the new posts being about Specialized's new products then try to do something about it.
- The idea that this forum is kind of related with some manufacturers but moderators conceal it (remember the Trek Emonda threads that were deleted because Trek asked so?). If there are such deals we must know.

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robbosmans
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by robbosmans

I come to this forum because I love seeing other people’s build, for me the build thread is the one I check the most.

Where I sometimes get frustrated is in the road thread. Where I also sometimes guilty of participating in stupid arguments about aero and what not.


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icantaffordcycling
Posts: 1132
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am

by icantaffordcycling

kgt wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:48 am
- All these new forum members who are practically working on marketing departments and post only to promote a specific brand. Not an easy thing to do, I know, but if you don;t likehalf of the new posts being about Specialized's new products then try to do something about it.
You do the exact same thing for look/time and lightweight, for at least as long as I have browsed this forum, why the double standard for people who are loyal to a different brand?

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

I think part of what KGT is saying is the Trek and Specialized threads pretty much rule on this road forum and its not all that often you see much of anything else at the top of the page for any length of Time, haha see what I did there. Yes I know that those brands are likely some of the most popular amoung most ppl.
I have a 99 Trek 5500 amoung my collection but I do enjoy the Euro bikes I have more so. I have to admit I get a little tired of seeing the dominating threads at the top of a page everytime I check to see whats new. Most times I will just gloss past those particular threads.
I also think ppl need to use the search tool when looking for info before posting another thread that has been delt with in the past. Just revive the old thread that has the related info you seek.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154188
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2012 Time RXRS Ulteam Rim Brake
2008 Time VXR Rim Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

fruitfly
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:40 pm
Location: Wet coast

by fruitfly

Ryan, thanks for starting this thread. I am relatively new here, but I read and participate in several moderated forums.

If I could suggest one thing, it would be deleting off-topic posts in a thread. I have never seen a forum where so many topics get hijacked by posters who wish to start the same pointless discussions about rim vs disk or aero vs weight. I was delighted to see you close the thread on the Strada Bianche.

Tone is a tough one. One poster regularly criticized for his tone is nevertheless very knowledgeable and I find his posts very helpful. Other regular posters have superficially pleasant tone, but have nothing to say, and say it over and over again. Flagging more often is a good idea, if only to get data on what/who forum members object to.

One forum I belong to requires anyone employed in the industry to begin the title of their thread with "CP" as an acronym for "commercial post" to identify that they are unlikely to be impartial. Some of the industry posters are fantastic because they have deep knowledge that they are willing to share, and they are recognized for their expertise. Others are merely shills or selling something, and they are recognized as such. Flagging the latter category would help root out the parasites on the forum.

I doubt if there is much to be done about those who write for ulterior motives/self-validation. It is tedious to read so many posts of the from "I ride an X so it must be great. You ride a Y so it must be garbage". Threads on "what is the best X?" are very useful when people describe their experiences, or give reasons for their choices, but pretty pointless when responses are preferences ( I like chocolate more than strawberry)

Hugh

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LouisN
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by LouisN

Exactly fruitfly.
Mods used to be less forgiving about comments that were judged out of context, or not following the forum's etiquette.
We also had "du__ a$$" members, trollers, and other "toxic" contributors before, but they were banned, and disappeared very fast. StefanR comes to mind, and a few others...
I come here for this particularity about this forum. IMHO it's a good thing that mods have a firm grip on what's been posted on their "property".
I suggest new posters should read and agree precise forum rules, and check a box to be accepted as members. If a poster has problems with a mod warning or baning him(her) you can send them to the rules they agreed on in the first place.

Let other forums welcome freedom of speech without control, "any opinion is good opinion" style, topic "slippage" or the like...so many of them already ;)

As for brands, well, there are brands and trends that are popular here, and others not as much. A few years ago you had 10 Parlee Z5 Posts in the Gallery's 1st page. NOw it's another "flavour".
I hope all moderators and administration will work as a team, as I feel we have more and more american and asian members than 10 years ago, so you guys have to be more "international" in your understanding about all this...

LOuis :)

MichaelK
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:50 pm

by MichaelK

On the one hand more extreme moderation would be good a la fruitfly's suggestion, however where do you draw the line? A lot of the onus falls on the reader to take other's opinions with a pinch of salt and not fall into a pissing match based on differing viewpoints.

One thing that could possibly help would be to lose the Catch-all Gallery sub forum and integrate them into the main Introduce Yourself / Gallery with the rule that build logs/detailed posts get their own thread and low-effort posts go into the Catch-all mega threads until the OP gives more info, weights or upgrades. How many topics at the moment are stock bikes with no weights? Hell some posts don't even say the overall weight of the bike!

RyanH
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by RyanH

One of the reasons for the gallery sub-forum was that those threads would dominate the first page, hiding individual builds.

I personally have always tried to minimally moderate content of posts as I struggled with where to draw the line. However, that lets a lot of questionnable stuff slide and I think the consensus so far is that there would be a preference to weed that out.

As far as the moderators shilling for brands, doubtful. It's primarily me, Nefarious and Mdeth moderator content. Those that have followed my builds know I'm probably the last person industry folks want to hand something to. I don't know what happened with the Emonda thread but I know that we've had wheel manufacturers upset about their products being pointed out as having issues and wanted it to be removed, which we said no.
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okimy
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:02 pm

by okimy

Aside from the fact that OT posts should be deleted more often to avoid endless and unnecessary arguments, something else came to my mind when reading the 2021 Merida Reacto thread.
There seems to always be an argument between people who I'd call classic weight weenies (who value weight savings a lot, as the other gains aren't quantifiable for them) and people I'd call performance weenies (who try to optimise their setup in regards to every aspect they can think of). I'm also seeing quite often that people dismiss any aero claims as marketing bs (even impartial tests), which is understandable, but imo too extreme. Aerodynamics isn't as tangible as weight after all, but I see no one being quite as skeptical about something like rolling resistance. And don't get me wrong here, I think skepticism about these claims is healthy, but some people on here are taking it to extremes.

These are just some of my observations, sadly I don't have any suggestions, however I hope they can come in handy when trying to improve this community.

by Weenie


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