Short nose saddles vs. classic saddles

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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BikeEatSleepRepeat
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by BikeEatSleepRepeat

JayDee81 wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:36 pm
...Btw probably the best saddle I have tried is the Selle Italia XLR Superflow... but it's not a road saddle, even though it might be the best saddle I tried yet, even on a trainer.
There is your answer, whatever use badging they may suggest.

Buy up the various sizes you can find and sort out which set up is best for you.
Last edited by BikeEatSleepRepeat on Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie



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JayDee81
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by JayDee81

BikeEatSleepRepeat wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:46 pm
JayDee81 wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:36 pm
...Btw probably the best saddle I have tried is the Selle Italia XLR Superflow... but it's not a road saddle, even though it might be the best saddle I tried yet, even on a trainer.
There is your answer, whatever use badging they may suggest.

Buy up the various sizes you can find and sort out which set up is best for you.
Yes, but it could still be better. The saddle is quite hard on the sitting bones after prolonged sitting in one position (mby 15-20 minutes) they start to hurt. This doesn't happen much on an MTB, but happens a lot on a road, especially on a trainer.

I will probably try the SLR Boost in S3 version. It looks very similar in shape when looking from top and has just a slightly bigger dip in the middle, which doesn't have to be bad.

NordicSal
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:09 pm

by NordicSal

wheelsONfire wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:24 am
NordicSal wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:59 pm
I have a quite large saddle to bar drop on my new bike, and I've noticed it can irritate the soft tissue behind the balls, making me somewhat numb. What kind of saddle could get me rid of this problem? I have a Fizik Aliante R5 atm, and have tried a bit of a negative angle on the saddle to combat the issue (yet to ride it), would that help you think?
If you you look at Pro saddles, this is what is likely to happen with them to. They need to be positioned meticulously careful.
I have been looking at Syncros, but they are same. It seems like you'd need a saddle were the flare of the sides flex.
Pro and Syncros are reinforced, which is opposite. Selle Italias SP-01 could have been great due to the construction, but they persist to do all saddles like a cradle.
I don't like Fizik, i think all their saddles are to narrow in the nose.
Looking at the new SMP F30C, it dips/ sag right in the middle, so your soft tissue is squeezed against the nose saddle rails mount.

I have been part happy with Pro Aerofuel. But again, the thighs risk to dig in to the saddle sides.

I repeat myself saying, the forthcoming ERE Research Genus could be the thing.
I was told the short version (240mm) comes first and then the longer version (270mm).
This concept have some nice features, looking at how the rails are designed and also a switch in the nose, allowing tuning of the flex of the hull.
Damn. Hoped there was an easy fix. I had some Bontrager saddle before, and a Cube before that I guess, and I think it might be the cradling of the new saddle which is the problem. My new bar drop isn't that much more dramatic than before, and I never had problem with it. The old saddles seem more flat, where as this fizik one seems "uneven". Never thought about my saddles before, I could literally ride 50k's in jeans without it being a problem.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

JayDee81 wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:36 pm
rospeedmich wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:39 pm
With a shorter saddle it's very easy to fall into the trap of NOT placing it as far BACK as you should because comparing to your former, longer saddle you might think that you're too far back in the beginning.

Before returning your Power I would suggest checking your fore-aft position. Don't rely on KOPS. When you ride hard and you're on the drops you should feel minimal pressure on your hands. What you've written before makes me believe you need more setback. Also, check for NOT having it too much tilted down.

A major advantage of short saddles for me is that you don't get your shorts stuck in the nose of the saddle riding on and off the saddle. Good luck.

Sent from my TA-1033 using Tapatalk
Thanks for the advice. I don't think I have the saddle too much forward. Comparing to the SP-01 I also have I set the Power cca 4 cm more back, when measured to the nose of the saddle. Also I played around with this position and tried position more forward, which made it differend, but not too much. Still rideable for shorter rides. I have played with the angle too, always having a cradle on the saddle (the tip was always at least horizontal).
I actually don't consider KOPS for some time. Actually I have my knee a little in front of the axle when measuring. Used to pushing saddle forward from riding enduro. :D But I don't do this on my road bike.
wheelsONfire wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:24 am
NordicSal wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:59 pm
I have a quite large saddle to bar drop on my new bike, and I've noticed it can irritate the soft tissue behind the balls, making me somewhat numb. What kind of saddle could get me rid of this problem? I have a Fizik Aliante R5 atm, and have tried a bit of a negative angle on the saddle to combat the issue (yet to ride it), would that help you think?
If you you look at Pro saddles, this is what is likely to happen with them to. They need to be positioned meticulously careful.
I have been looking at Syncros, but they are same. It seems like you'd need a saddle were the flare of the sides flex.
Pro and Syncros are reinforced, which is opposite. Selle Italias SP-01 could have been great due to the construction, but they persist to do all saddles like a cradle.

I repeat myself saying, the forthcoming ERE Research Genus could be the thing.
I was told the short version (240mm) comes first and then the longer version (270mm).
This concept have some nice features, looking at how the rails are designed and also a switch in the nose, allowing tuning of the flex of the hull.
So you say that the problem with Pro Stealth is that it doesn't have flex in the wings for pedalling motion?

Also I looked at the ERE Genus saddle and it has a cradle too, but you say it might be good, even though you said cradle is bad (for you).




Other than that can anyone tell me, if I should look more for narrower saddle with the sit bones distance of 11 cm? Or should I stay with 140ish saddles? Or there isn't another way than to test myself?

Also I have tested the Dimension and although I really liked the saddle, it didn't liked me. On the trainer my sit bones hurt after some time, but more importantly it didn't really solve my numbing perineum problem, even when riding outside.

Edit: Btw probably the best saddle I have tried is the Selle Italia XLR Superflow (should be the 131 mm wide (narrow) version, but it was on a bike I bought and I couldn't find any size marker on it, so it could be the 145 mm version), but it's not a road saddle, even though it might be the best saddle I tried yet, even on a trainer.
genus.jpeg
Why do you think this is a cradled saddle?
And yes, the "wings" have some flex (move when you pedal)
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

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JayDee81
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by JayDee81

wheelsONfire wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:03 pm
genus.jpeg

Why do you think this is a cradled saddle?
And yes, the "wings" have some flex (move when you pedal)
Image

Looks like it in this picture. But I also read that the Genus should be a flat saddle and there should be also Omnium, which would be a waved saddle, so might be flat after all.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

wheelsONfire wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:24 am
Looking at the new SMP F30C, it dips/ sag right in the middle, so your soft tissue is squeezed against the nose saddle rails mount.

???

The F30 and F30C are specifically Selle SMP’s “flat” saddles...I don’t consider the slightest bowing or a ramped saddle back “cradling.” Soft tissues squeezed against the nose saddle rails mount...what the hell?? What does that even mean?

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:26 pm
wheelsONfire wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:24 am
Looking at the new SMP F30C, it dips/ sag right in the middle, so your soft tissue is squeezed against the nose saddle rails mount.

???

The F30 and F30C are specifically Selle SMP’s “flat” saddles...I don’t consider the slightest bowing or a ramped saddle back “cradling.” Soft tissues squeezed against the nose saddle rails mount...what the hell?? What does that even mean?
I have had both.
F30 looks flat on pictures, but it is not. Pro Aero fuel is flat!
Ride F30C and see how you feel. If you split weight between rami and sit bone, the saddle dip. What you feel with rami is the furthest saddle rail mount.
The standard SMP have a fairly hard shell, i have Dynamic to and it does not sag.
If i would ride F30C, i would like the middle of the saddle made stiff.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

JayDee81 wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:25 pm
wheelsONfire wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:03 pm
genus.jpeg

Why do you think this is a cradled saddle?
And yes, the "wings" have some flex (move when you pedal)
Image

Looks like it in this picture. But I also read that the Genus should be a flat saddle and there should be also Omnium, which would be a waved saddle, so might be flat after all.
Yes, i agree with you.
If you'd place a level at this, there is a dip.
So marked as flat is a bit strange

Do you see the "switch underneath the saddle nose?
This is has 3 settings, if you press it against the rear, it stiffens the hull.
Full forward, it is at softest.

There are quite a few saddles that is sold as flat saddles, but still they're not.

Those that are flattest are Selle San Marco Mantra FX, Cobb Fifty five (now with new name) and Pro AeroFuel.
Some look flat on pictures, but once you sit on them they sag.
(very much so, SMP F30C)
Cyclist apply weight on sitbones, but many also "balance" on rami, personally i discard saddles that dips then.

I once asked Prologo the angle of the tail of their model Zero, "flat" saddle. I don't remember the angle exactly, but they measured and it wasn't flat.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Check this, it is a good insight

https://www.meld3d.com

EDIT: i aim at the 3 pictures/drawings on how sitbones and rami apply pressure on saddle hull. "If" you tend to put weight on rami.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

User avatar
JayDee81
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:45 pm
Location: Europe

by JayDee81

wheelsONfire wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:26 am
Check this, it is a good insight

https://www.meld3d.com

EDIT: i aim at the 3 pictures/drawings on how sitbones and rami apply pressure on saddle hull. "If" you tend to put weight on rami.
My biggest problem is probably that I don't spend any time in a position that wouldn't put pressure on my rami (I think). That's where the numbing comes from. S Power saddle solves this problem, but I really dislike how the rising rear of the saddle pushes me forward.

Today I will try again the SI XLR and S Power.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 3411
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Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

JayDee81 wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:19 am
wheelsONfire wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:26 am
Check this, it is a good insight

https://www.meld3d.com

EDIT: i aim at the 3 pictures/drawings on how sitbones and rami apply pressure on saddle hull. "If" you tend to put weight on rami.
My biggest problem is probably that I don't spend any time in a position that wouldn't put pressure on my rami (I think). That's where the numbing comes from. S Power saddle solves this problem, but I really dislike how the rising rear of the saddle pushes me forward.

Today I will try again the SI XLR and S Power.
I understand. A flat saddle and perhaps longer, would free you from that problem.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

User avatar
JayDee81
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:45 pm
Location: Europe

by JayDee81

wheelsONfire wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:59 am
JayDee81 wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:19 am
wheelsONfire wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:26 am
Check this, it is a good insight

https://www.meld3d.com

EDIT: i aim at the 3 pictures/drawings on how sitbones and rami apply pressure on saddle hull. "If" you tend to put weight on rami.
My biggest problem is probably that I don't spend any time in a position that wouldn't put pressure on my rami (I think). That's where the numbing comes from. S Power saddle solves this problem, but I really dislike how the rising rear of the saddle pushes me forward.

Today I will try again the SI XLR and S Power.
I understand. A flat saddle and perhaps longer, would free you from that problem.
I have tried Selle San Marco Mantra small (136 mm wide) and it was actually unbearable for my sit bones after 10 or 15 minutes in 1 position. I think I need some curve from side to side and flat or just a slight wave front to back. And a hole to relief perineum in the middle of course.

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guyc
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by guyc

I've tried the Prologo Dimension Nack today and seems very promising. Solid hour on the turbo and zero numbness. It doesn't push me forward as much as the Power did (which I didn't get on too well with).

Ive got the Selle Italia Boost Superflow arriving later so will compare that.

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JayDee81
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Location: Europe

by JayDee81

guyc wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:59 pm
I've tried the Prologo Dimension Nack today and seems very promising. Solid hour on the turbo and zero numbness. It doesn't push me forward as much as the Power did (which I didn't get on too well with).

Ive got the Selle Italia Boost Superflow arriving later so will compare that.
I am looking forward to that comparison as I rode the Dimension and now I am considering the SLR Boost. Don't be shy and go into more detail. :)

by Weenie


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