Hill training

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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demoCRIT
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:04 pm

by demoCRIT

Gary71 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:12 pm
......
Well, doing something a lot of times doesn’t necessarily make you a fast cyclist - either in the hills or the flats.......
...
I think BikeBoy and DCcyclist said it - if you want to get fast at going up hills. Do hill repeats !
....
:thumbup:

Or just figure out what is that you want, get stronger on longer hills - train aerobic power, just do looong EASY endurance rides
and your body will adapt. (this is over simplification just for the purpose of this thread)
If you want to be able to attack on hills you need explosive power - gym + short sprints + endu wont hurt
There is also Vo2Max work you could be doing but this is partially covered by endurance rides too.
Get a plan or even better - get a coach if you want it for real, don't follow random gurus advices,
if you put all tips given in this topic together you will be hurting yourself and not progressing.

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themidge
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by themidge

My plan to get better at riding up hills is to get better at riding on the flat. It's so frustrating to be naturally good at climbing (I weigh 55kg) but by the time we get to the hills on the local chaingang I'm already tired! I'll never be as strong on the flats as the big guys, but at least they won't drop me on the hills too.

Although, when the descent down the other side doesn't have any corners to slow the heavy people down, I'd gladly take a few kg's in a backpack to give me some help keeping up :D .

by Weenie


bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Adding weight to bike is fine but put in panniers not on your back. While you put out the same power or should on any bike the difference comes because the heavy bike will be slower up hil and therefore you have to maintain the effort for longer Also the cadance probably chages and becomes lower. It different training on a loaded adux bike than your race bike.

RyanH
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by RyanH

Power on hills vs flats has been covered before. There is a difference and it is real:

https://cyclingtips.com/2013/09/climbin ... -affected/

You have to do intervals on flats and hills if you want to be able to hold similar wattage. I used to be able to only hold 90% of my climbing power on the flats, now it's closer to 98%.

Shrike
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by Shrike

@joejack yes the legs come back after a handful of sessions on the road. Shouldn’t be as much of a problem this winter, moving south so weather should be milder. I’ll mix it up more so no long extended periods off the road hopefully.

adam0bmx0
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by adam0bmx0

reedplayer wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:04 am
adam0bmx0 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:01 am

5:18 @ 460 w VS 5:19 @ 450w
body weight?
I don't own scales but hovering around 71kg (last time I checked a couple weeks ago) @ 183cm

PeytonM
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by PeytonM

RyanH wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:05 am
Power on hills vs flats has been covered before. There is a difference and it is real:

https://cyclingtips.com/2013/09/climbin ... -affected/

You have to do intervals on flats and hills if you want to be able to hold similar wattage. I used to be able to only hold 90% of my climbing power on the flats, now it's closer to 98%.
Thank you for this very interesting.

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WinterRider
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by WinterRider

What I am trying to accomplish with the sled stress is same effect one gets per hrs of riding. I am not suggesting my routine that equivalent.. just that stressing the body to the extent I do definitely shows improvements cardiovascularly & metabolically.

"Gassers".. not much time invested for the gains made. Not.. for the soft types.. or the lazy. :thumbup:
Litespeed 2000 Appalachian 61 cm
Litespeed 1998 Blue Ridge 61cm

Fitness rider.. 2 yrs from seven decades age.

That is my story and I'm stick'n to it.

joejack951
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by joejack951

RyanH wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:05 am
Power on hills vs flats has been covered before. There is a difference and it is real:

https://cyclingtips.com/2013/09/climbin ... -affected/

You have to do intervals on flats and hills if you want to be able to hold similar wattage. I used to be able to only hold 90% of my climbing power on the flats, now it's closer to 98%.
That article is highly unconvincing. For one, it illogically jumps around on how 'high kinetic energy' it affects power. Moving a high rate of speed and how quickly you need to apply force to the pedals are entirely unrelated unless talking about single speed track/BMX bikes (which the article confusingly references given that neither bike is used for much time trialing or climbing. It talks some about kinetic energy of the system and how you'll quickly lose speed if coasting on a hill but none of that has anything to do with cadence. Merely, as I stated before, hills force you to be more consistent with your effort than flat roads as otherwise you'll fall over.

I still maintain that the power difference comes down to (mostly) position on the bike. It's easier to put out more power sitting up holding the tops or hood than when getting as low as possible, with the ultimate in that being a TT position. There may be additional subtle differences but I believe those will be mostly noise relative to the positional differences. Any noted difference in heart rate for a given power and cadence is likely due to restricted breathing in a more aero position.

RyanH
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by RyanH

This is not accurate. Ask anyone that targets the TT or other flat type riding. They'll produce more power in the TT position or on the flats than climbing. Specificity is king.

reedplayer
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by reedplayer

adam0bmx0 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:51 am
reedplayer wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:04 am
adam0bmx0 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:01 am

5:18 @ 460 w VS 5:19 @ 450w
body weight?
I don't own scales but hovering around 71kg (last time I checked a couple weeks ago) @ 183cm
wow, good numbers!

bikeboy1tr
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by bikeboy1tr

RyanH wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:23 am
This is not accurate. Ask anyone that targets the TT or other flat type riding. They'll produce more power in the TT position or on the flats than climbing. Specificity is king.
So why is it some of the National coaches are telling us to do our FTP tests on inclines or into the wind to get the best results which would leave me to believe that climbing would give us our best numbers for power. I do realize that you need that extra constant resistance to give good numbers.
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RocketRacing
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by RocketRacing

bikeboy1tr wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:15 am
RyanH wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:23 am
This is not accurate. Ask anyone that targets the TT or other flat type riding. They'll produce more power in the TT position or on the flats than climbing. Specificity is king.
So why is it some of the National coaches are telling us to do our FTP tests on inclines or into the wind to get the best results which would leave me to believe that climbing would give us our best numbers for power. I do realize that you need that extra constant resistance to give good numbers.
My expereince with that is laziness. climbing produces more natural resistance on the pedals vs flats, so I work harder. In the steep stuff, I have no option but to work harder, expecially if i am targetign a cadence. One the flats, it is easy to coast. I really need to work to push larger gears and make my legs work. A power meter helps in this regard.

RocketRacing
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by RocketRacing

LouisN wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:28 pm
RocketRacing wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:36 am
So i like hills. I was wondering about strapping on a backpack with some weights and doing a few climbs. Then i thought... why not just pedal harder (bigger gear). “Cycling doesn’t get any easier, you just go faster”.

Thoughts?
You like hills.
What's your goal ? Going faster uphill ? How long are those hills ? Any climb in particular ?

Then simple physiology principles will be your friends.

LOuis :)
I will bite.

My goal is to go faster. Most of my local hils are limited to 2-4kms. But I like to crush the longer KOM's on Zwift (if I had local real world access, I would prefer those types of climbs as they play to my build/strength). THe longer ones just tend to be less steep... as they are all doing roughly the same elevation, just over a longer distance. The climbs most local to me are my main goals out of convenience, and most are similar in the region (a valley). They are basically 6-8min efforts going 100% (4+w/kg for me).

but my real goal is higher FTP. Climbs/segments are just the most entertaining way to get there for me.

Right now I just use strava/segments to time my climbs, and I simply go faster each time. I use a power meter to keep me honest (easy to let power drop on longer efforts). I rotate segments I wish to improve on (hills, flat, climbs) for variety, and ride routes that have variety for personal interest. Depending on my goals and time available, I will hit 2-4 segments at full gas per ride, most in the 3-12 minute duration. I am not so focused on average ride speed or such numbers because I play safe on descents. I basically use segments as interval training, because true interval training bores me somewhat, and riding for riding is just not how my brain works when I am riding alone (group rides are more social in my world).

and I don;t add weight when I climb, I just push harder and go faster each time. That naturally gets me in larger gears.

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LouisN
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by LouisN

To each his own.
There are plenty of nice little KOM's in your region :) :
https://www.strava.com/location/port%20 ... 117/zoom/9

IMO if you find that hills intervals is not for you, I would ask stronger, better cyclists to join them in group rides instead of using group rides for "social".
I recall many strong riders in the area, conti pros, cat.1-2 and nationals masters champs.
There's a lot to gain by riding with stronger people. While you're getting your arse kicked, you're putting enough stress on your body to eventually produce adaptations you otherwise wouldn't be able to get by riding alone, unless you're a trained athlete. It's also useful to watch how the strong climbers climb. Pedalling technique, gears used, etc. You will probably explode before the top of the the first climbs you are doing with them, but it's a sure way to test your limits, and learn something by mimic-ing the movements.
I get all my PB's riding with my sons in law :beerchug:


Louis :)

by Weenie


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