KMC X12 Chain on Campagnolo 12 speed 50 34

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
graeme_f_k
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
Posts: 372
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 12:21 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

by graeme_f_k

kdviner70 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:11 pm
wilwil wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:48 pm
kdviner70 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:14 pm
connector.jpg
ome rodriguez wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:27 am
I use kmc missing link 12 and sram eagle 12 power link on my campagnolo 12 speed chains with no problems
Hmm - I wonder what I did wrong? I tried twice to lightly press the missing link 12 into the new Campy chain. Any tips? Just to make sure, is this what you are using?
I have just bought these missing links and notice it doesn't say Campagnolo on the packet but does on their website. There isnt a specific Campag version. I bought them to carry for emergencies because as Calnago said, theres no reason to use them with 12 speed. I have heard and I really dont know if its true that the Campag 12 speed chain is noisy and some people are using the new Sram 12 speed chains.

Ive used KMC links on Campag 11 speed with out problems but I dont reuse them like some do. KMC chains were never an improvement over Campag with 11 speed.
Let us know if they do fit. That will prove I did something wrong.
The dimension figures quoted neglect tolerances.

Campagnolo don't reveal their maxima / minima for any component dimension - so KMC are just guessing in their manufacture - if you had a Campag chain near the max of it's over-link-plate tolerance and a KMC joining link at the minimum of their pin length / joint step tolerance, it's entirely possible that you might find it difficult or impossiblle to close. 0.05mm doesn't sound like a lot in terms of pin length difference but it's still the difference between a light interference fit and a clearance fit ... as a material example, the difference required to secure an old-school headset into a frame is only 0,075 - 0.1mm and they are tight enough to need a press to insert ...

If it did close, it could fail. I have about 20 joining links of various formats I have collected over the years with various failure modes. When customers ask me why I only ever recommend them as an emergency get-you-home, I just pour out my little container of failed links.

A properly rivetted chain is exceedingly unlikely to fail but it does have to be done correctly - it's not about being in the 21st century or otherwise - it's just good engineering and correct tool use.

Please remember, if you fit a third party chain or a joining link and you suffer a failure of any sort in the transmission, Campagnolo are not bound to honour any element of the warranty on your shiny new groupset, any more than Shimano or SRAM are if you mix and match their components ... your chances of needing to avail yourself of that warrnty are very, very small, admittedly - but users do need to be made aware of that fact.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC

by Weenie


kdviner70
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Wyoming

by kdviner70

graeme_f_k wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:21 am
kdviner70 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:11 pm
wilwil wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:48 pm
kdviner70 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:14 pm
connector.jpg
Hmm - I wonder what I did wrong? I tried twice to lightly press the missing link 12 into the new Campy chain. Any tips? Just to make sure, is this what you are using?
I have just bought these missing links and notice it doesn't say Campagnolo on the packet but does on their website. There isnt a specific Campag version. I bought them to carry for emergencies because as Calnago said, theres no reason to use them with 12 speed. I have heard and I really dont know if its true that the Campag 12 speed chain is noisy and some people are using the new Sram 12 speed chains.

Ive used KMC links on Campag 11 speed with out problems but I dont reuse them like some do. KMC chains were never an improvement over Campag with 11 speed.
Let us know if they do fit. That will prove I did something wrong.
The dimension figures quoted neglect tolerances.

Campagnolo don't reveal their maxima / minima for any component dimension - so KMC are just guessing in their manufacture - if you had a Campag chain near the max of it's over-link-plate tolerance and a KMC joining link at the minimum of their pin length / joint step tolerance, it's entirely possible that you might find it difficult or impossiblle to close. 0.05mm doesn't sound like a lot in terms of pin length difference but it's still the difference between a light interference fit and a clearance fit ... as a material example, the difference required to secure an old-school headset into a frame is only 0,075 - 0.1mm and they are tight enough to need a press to insert ...

If it did close, it could fail. I have about 20 joining links of various formats I have collected over the years with various failure modes. When customers ask me why I only ever recommend them as an emergency get-you-home, I just pour out my little container of failed links.

A properly rivetted chain is exceedingly unlikely to fail but it does have to be done correctly - it's not about being in the 21st century or otherwise - it's just good engineering and correct tool use.

Please remember, if you fit a third party chain or a joining link and you suffer a failure of any sort in the transmission, Campagnolo are not bound to honour any element of the warranty on your shiny new groupset, any more than Shimano or SRAM are if you mix and match their components ... your chances of needing to avail yourself of that warrnty are very, very small, admittedly - but users do need to be made aware of that fact.
I think I under stand what you are saying. So when the Campy website states that the new 12 speed chain is 5.15 mm is that an average?

fluoroller
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:13 am

by fluoroller

I tried the KMC X12 chain on Record 12 speed. Had rubbing between the chain and adjacent sprockets in the 3rd and 4th gears, as the chain was too thick. Changed to the Campy R12 speed chain and problem solved.

talltales
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:43 pm

by talltales

Calnago wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:57 pm
gorkypl wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:47 am
Calnago wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:22 pm
Peen it properly. Forget the quicklink. Especially with 12sp stuff, there is no reason to break the chain.
Are you able to clean the chain thoroughly without taking it off? How? Serious question, I just always took the chain off as it seemed impossible to clean it on the bike.
Yes, but if you want squeaky sparkling clean, then no. I don't believe in getting it squeaky clean between lubes, stripping every trace of lubricant or whatnot off the chain. I use Dumond Tech Lite as my lube of choice (not the ProX stuff). I use a Park Tool Chain Cleaner with warm water and a few drops of Dawn Dishwashing liquid. Run the chain through it, rinse it with a hose, maybe take a stiff brush to the chain depending on how "sparkling" I want to get it. But the idea is just to remove and grit and grime and fine sandy particles picked up from the road. I use a tiny flat screwdriver as kind of a scraper on the pulleys to remove the gunked up stuff. Then dry it (I have compressed air), but you can just let it air dry. Then just apply a small drop to each roller bushing. Always have a super quiet drive train. I use the Park Chain Checker CC3.2. or some Vernier calipers and follow Campy's guideline of when it gets to 132.60mm, it's time to replace. As a matter of convenience, the 50% mark on the Park Chain Checker is a bit beyond Campy's guideline, but it's just easier to quickly check using this tool and close enough.
Image
Can you provide the actual lenght of the park tool, please?

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 8349
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

talltales wrote: Can you provide the actual length of the park tool, please?
The Park Tool is ~171mm (rough measure with a ruler) at the 0.5mark. That’s measuring between 14 links (distance between 15pins). The Campy guideline is when the chain is at 132.60mm (11 links, 12 pins), it’s time for replacement. The 0.5 mark on the Park Tool indicates that the chain has worn one half of 1%, and that is the wear point determined to be the time for replacement. To be clear, it does not mean the chain is 50% worn and you have 50% left. It means replace the chain now. So, if a new chain is at ~132.0mm (very close), then half of 1% of that is 0.5 x (.01 x 132.0) = 0.66mm. So, that would imply a distance of 132.0+0.66=~132.66 before replacement, or basically the equivalent of Campy’s guideline. I just find using the Park Tool much easier as a go/nogo kind of check. And yes, I can notice the degradation in shifting if I let it go much more than that, so once I can fit the Park Tool in there, I just keep it in mind to change it out at some point sooner than later.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

talltales
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:43 pm

by talltales

Yes I get all of that. I was just curious about what, exactly, park considers 0.5% or 1%. Its not a given they go by the nominal dimensions of a bicycle chain and they may or may not account for some initial slop in the rollers and/or variance in roller diameter. Btw Park just announce a new chain wear gauge that is similat tol the older Shimano tl-cn41.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post