SRAM Etap playing with Etap AXS

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

There is no way to make a 12s mech work with an 11s casette. Same as 10s didnt work with 11s...
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Karvalo
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by Karvalo

izza wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:28 am
tabl10s wrote:
Nefarious86 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:36 am
Not compatible in any way shape or form.
Can you use the FD/RD with an 11sp set up(including chain)? Don't care about 12sp, but I want the connectivity.
FD - Yes. It’s my understanding that the later 11sp Etap FD’s already has the 12sp motor in it.
What difference does that make? Whatever the motor is, in an 11sp mech it will be programmed to only listen to 11sp shifters and in a 12 speed mech it will be programmed to only listen to 12sp shifters. Then mechanically the cage will probably be narrower and positioned lower relative to the braze-on, since it hasn't been designed to facilitate anything bigger han a 50t.
That came to me indirectly from a SRAM insider.
That means it didn't come to you from a SRAM insider.

by Weenie


izza
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by izza

It means a friend invited to a SRAM launch spoke to a SRAM employee who admitted he was saying more than he should.


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solarider
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by solarider

If all AXS is meant to play nicely together, how come the road and offroad variants have a different chain pitch/roller measurement?

I would like to run a 1 x 12 with a Wolftooth 12 speed Eagle compatible chainring. Will that not work with the Red chain and cassette?

Karvalo
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by Karvalo

SRAM says no.

solarider
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by solarider

grrrrr.

geca
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by geca

Anybody who has tested a 12 Speed Campagnolo cassette to see if it works with 12 speed SRAM AXS.
Asking because it seems to be a problem for people to get XRD drivers to many wheelsets if they not are new models from SRAM or Zipp.

Attermann
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by Attermann

geca wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:29 pm
Anybody who has tested a 12 Speed Campagnolo cassette to see if it works with 12 speed SRAM AXS.
Asking because it seems to be a problem for people to get XRD drivers to many wheelsets if they not are new models from SRAM or Zipp.

It won’t, the pitch is different, axs will only work with axs and not anything else

Karvalo
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by Karvalo

Attermann wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:51 pm
geca wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:29 pm
Anybody who has tested a 12 Speed Campagnolo cassette to see if it works with 12 speed SRAM AXS.
Asking because it seems to be a problem for people to get XRD drivers to many wheelsets if they not are new models from SRAM or Zipp.
It won’t, the pitch is different, axs will only work with axs and not anything else
They are incompatible, but for a slightly different reason. The chain pitch is the same, it's the roller diameter which is different. That's why you can use an Eagle or eTap AXS chain on a road 1x AXS chainring, for example.

mattr
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by mattr

RussellS wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:02 am
With mechanical the AMOUNT of up and down is controlled by the lever.
Nope, only the amount of cable pull.
RussellS wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:02 am
The derailleur does not control the amount of movement. That is controlled by how far apart the clicks in the lever are.
Nope, the geometry of the mech combined with the amount of cable pull per click determines how far the mech moves.

akaspin
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by akaspin

Karvalo wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:07 pm
Attermann wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:51 pm
geca wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:29 pm
Anybody who has tested a 12 Speed Campagnolo cassette to see if it works with 12 speed SRAM AXS.
Asking because it seems to be a problem for people to get XRD drivers to many wheelsets if they not are new models from SRAM or Zipp.
It won’t, the pitch is different, axs will only work with axs and not anything else
They are incompatible, but for a slightly different reason. The chain pitch is the same, it's the roller diameter which is different. That's why you can use an Eagle or eTap AXS chain on a road 1x AXS chainring, for example.
As SRAM says Red AXS chain has bigger roller diameter than Eagle chain. This makes Red AXS cassette and chainrings totally incompatible. Needless to suggest an idea to replace cassette with compatible one and forget about crooked Red AXS cranks and chainrings. Campagnolo 12 speed is one of options: campa 12-speed cassette (without bloody XDR), KMC X12 chain and *normal* chainrings. Does anyone have the ability to measure spacing (pith) of both Red AXS and campa 12 cassettes?

Second option is ... https://www.instagram.com/p/BujzIuzgeUr ... ck26p7g4zh: It seems that despite all the bullshit that sram marketers says at least one of aftermarket NW chainrings works with Red AXS. It remains to follow the news and announcements.

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wheelsONfire
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Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

I wonder how that bike will work with the FD and two (oval) chainrings

Perhaps Sram says only their chainring works to void (as much as possible) issues with chaindrops!?

When i bought my Etap and read the warranty, it was only valid using Sram (crank, chain etc), not aftermarket.
No idea how they would check that, not even sure i've seen that claim before.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
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Erwin
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Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:13 am
Location: Bavaria

by Erwin

OMG, that is insane! After years of using Shimano DI2, I have considered giving Etap a try. I will abandon my plans. Always liked the possibilty to mixture 11sp things. All my bikes are running Sram Red cassette with Shimano DI2 group. My MTB runs a 11-32 Ultegra cassette, always using the same chain. I think I am staying a long time with 11sp material. Thanks for the explanations in this thread. WW is always the best information for technical stuff ;)

Cattiy
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:08 pm

by Cattiy

akaspin wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:24 am
Karvalo wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:07 pm
Attermann wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:51 pm
geca wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:29 pm
Anybody who has tested a 12 Speed Campagnolo cassette to see if it works with 12 speed SRAM AXS.
Asking because it seems to be a problem for people to get XRD drivers to many wheelsets if they not are new models from SRAM or Zipp.
It won’t, the pitch is different, axs will only work with axs and not anything else
They are incompatible, but for a slightly different reason. The chain pitch is the same, it's the roller diameter which is different. That's why you can use an Eagle or eTap AXS chain on a road 1x AXS chainring, for example.
As SRAM says Red AXS chain has bigger roller diameter than Eagle chain. This makes Red AXS cassette and chainrings totally incompatible. Needless to suggest an idea to replace cassette with compatible one and forget about crooked Red AXS cranks and chainrings. Campagnolo 12 speed is one of options: campa 12-speed cassette (without bloody XDR), KMC X12 chain and *normal* chainrings. Does anyone have the ability to measure spacing (pith) of both Red AXS and campa 12 cassettes?

Second option is ... https://www.instagram.com/p/BujzIuzgeUr ... ck26p7g4zh: It seems that despite all the bullshit that sram marketers says at least one of aftermarket NW chainrings works with Red AXS. It remains to follow the news and announcements.
I spoke to a retailer, which claimed a Campagnolo 12 speed chain and other cassettes would work just fine. It would be real nice if the so called bike test sites would clarify it on their own, so that the end user does not to.

by Weenie


Karvalo
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Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Cattiy wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:53 pm
I spoke to a retailer, which claimed a Campagnolo 12 speed chain and other cassettes would work just fine.
Did they say it'd work because they've tried it, or because they think it will work? The potential issues I can see are first whether the rear mech pushes a chain with conventional rollers with as much authority as it would a Flat Top chain whose rollers match the jockey wheel design. Then, you'll have a fundamentally different set of chainring options to choose from. The front mech has been designed for a max chainring size of 50t, so if you want faster than 50x11 you might be out of luck. If you're happy with a 50, then the front mech has only been designed to handle 13t gaps, so the 16t gap of a normal 50/34 may cause issues. Then, ok all of that might work, but does it work perfectly? Does it deliver the absolute top level of performance (as designed by SRAM with the complete system) that justifies the very large amount of money you just spent on it?
It would be real nice if the so called bike test sites would clarify it on their own, so that the end user does not to.
Tricky one that. When a bike site says "we used Product X in a way we weren't supposed to and it didn't work" the only thing some people will take from that headline is "Product X doesn't work". Manufacturers don't want to see those headlines, and are then less likely to give test equipment and demo day invites to review sites who have a habit of doing it.

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