Vittoria Launch this month

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
ducman
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:49 pm

by ducman

Finaly a tire that comes close to a GP4000/5000? It has taken 'them' long enough to be true....

ichobi
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

I honestly think the first gen Corsa surpasses gp4000 at least in terms of comfort.

by Weenie


aeroisnteverything
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

sethjs wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:50 am
In theory I have the Corsa TLR 25c arriving before the wknd. Might be tempted to mount them and give them a whirl!

And strongly agree on the Para sidewall sentiment!
Let us know how the mounting itself goes. The ease (or lack thereof) with mounting is, to me, one of the paramount factors when differentiating between tubeless tires.

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C36
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

ducman wrote:Finaly a tire that comes close to a GP4000/5000? It has taken 'them' long enough to be true....
For quite some time the gp4k was far from being a reference. It builts its reputation on rolling resistance, low RR coming from a ridiculously stiff tire. Can’t imagine that people could get over this aspect or are so Insensitive that i would question any feedback given on any equipment.

aeroisnteverything wrote:
sethjs wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:50 am
In theory I have the Corsa TLR 25c arriving before the wknd. Might be tempted to mount them and give them a whirl!

And strongly agree on the Para sidewall sentiment!
Let us know how the mounting itself goes. The ease (or lack thereof) with mounting is, to me, one of the paramount factors when differentiating between tubeless tires.
They will fit differently each type of rim since dimensions are not standardised. As far I I know, only Mavic has a consistent std that cover both tire and rim dimensions, even huntchison tires (making Mavics tires) do not yet respect dimensions and bed stiffness set by the std.



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mr2scott
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:39 pm

by mr2scott

There are some tires from Vittoria showing up at my door today. I hope they are Graphene 2.0 Corsa TLR 25c and/or Mezcal 29er TLR.

bremerradkurier
Posts: 319
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:18 pm

by bremerradkurier

If Graphene 2.0 claims are true, trucking companies would be highly interested given the possible fuel cost savings at the fleet level.

aeroisnteverything
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

ducman wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:08 am
Finaly a tire that comes close to a GP4000/5000? It has taken 'them' long enough to be true....
Performance-wise, this should be a good tyre. I put the Corsa Speed entirely aside here, as that one is pure TT/Racing item. But the original Corsa G+ clincher was fairly close to Conti GP 4kSII. If you just made that tubeless, without any changes to the compound, you're getting fairly close to Hutchison Galactic's level of performance, as going tubeless usually subtracts a couple of watts. If the compound is improved even by 5%, I'd be happy to try that on. The non-tubeless options will continue to find their audience too, particularly if the performance improves by say 10%.

This TLR tyre is going to live or die by the more practical issues though. Are they easy to mount? How good is tyre life? Do they cut up too easily? What about feel/grip? Stuff like that. Ignoring all the marketing malarkey, there is a non-trivial chance that a Corsa G+ TLR could become the new all-around best tyre on the combination of those factors and its performance. But let's see, shall we?

XCProMD
Posts: 753
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:25 am
Location: Cantabria

by XCProMD

bremerradkurier wrote:If Graphene 2.0 claims are true, trucking companies would be highly interested given the possible fuel cost savings at the fleet level.
Problem is, Vittoria makes 2 tons of graphene for tyres a year for tyres that contain some grams of it and they can sell at 20€ (ex Vittoria) for 300 of tyre in average.

A truck tyre comes at roughly 450€ in average at market price, and weights in at nearly 100 kg. Of which 3 or 4 (maths form the top of my head) should be graphene.

Even accounting for the extra that could be charged for the improved efficiency such a truck tyre would be a difficult market case.

bremerradkurier
Posts: 319
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:18 pm

by bremerradkurier

XCProMD wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:13 pm
bremerradkurier wrote:If Graphene 2.0 claims are true, trucking companies would be highly interested given the possible fuel cost savings at the fleet level.
Problem is, Vittoria makes 2 tons of graphene for tyres a year for tyres that contain some grams of it and they can sell at 20€ (ex Vittoria) for 300 of tyre in average.

A truck tyre comes at roughly 450€ in average at market price, and weights in at nearly 100 kg. Of which 3 or 4 (maths form the top of my head) should be graphene.

Even accounting for the extra that could be charged for the improved efficiency such a truck tyre would be a difficult market case.
Commercial truck tires seem to have very long service lives to amortize the extra costs, assuming the rolling resistance gains are real.

https://www.thetruckersreport.com/truck ... st.905255/

Hexsense
Posts: 859
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Is rolling resistance a real concern for big motor vehicle?
I thought their speed is far too high that aerodynamic drag almost totally overwhelm any effect of rolling resistance difference.

Even if we reduce rolling resistance down to 0, total energy consumption doesn't go down much, isn't it?

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3777
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

XCProMD wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:13 pm
bremerradkurier wrote:If Graphene 2.0 claims are true, trucking companies would be highly interested given the possible fuel cost savings at the fleet level.
Problem is, Vittoria makes 2 tons of graphene for tyres a year for tyres that contain some grams of it and they can sell at 20€ (ex Vittoria) for 300 of tyre in average.

A truck tyre comes at roughly 450€ in average at market price, and weights in at nearly 100 kg. Of which 3 or 4 (maths form the top of my head) should be graphene.

Even accounting for the extra that could be charged for the improved efficiency such a truck tyre would be a difficult market case.

As Hexsense mentions, rolling resistance is the least of a truck’s problems. Aerodynamic drag is the low-hanging fruit, which is why you see more road hugging skirts, more fairings on the back of trailers and wheel covers these days.

bremerradkurier
Posts: 319
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:18 pm

by bremerradkurier

Hexsense wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:57 pm
Is rolling resistance a real concern for big motor vehicle?
I thought their speed is far too high that aerodynamic drag almost totally overwhelm any effect of rolling resistance difference.

Even if we reduce rolling resistance down to 0, total energy consumption doesn't go down much, isn't it?
https://nacfe.org/technology/low-rollin ... nce-duals/

Low rolling resistance (LRR) dual tires will save significant amounts of fuel when compared to tires that are not designed for low rolling resistance. Some of the costs to operate low rolling resistance tires may be higher than those of non-LRR tires, but those costs are recovered over the life of the truck.

Cost per mile of tires has traditionally been defined in terms of initial purchase and tread life. However, the cost of fuel the tire consumes because of rolling resistance is five times greater than the initial purchase price of the tire. Rolling resistance makes up 30-33% of the total fuel cost of a Class 8 truck or about $0.21 per mile. The typical purchase price of the tire is about $0.04 per mile.

The Confidence Rating indicates a high confidence in low rolling resistance dual tires to save on fuel costs signifying a good case for adoption.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3777
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

And how much added benefit would graphene add vs cost to existing low-rolling resistance tires?

mr2scott
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:39 pm

by mr2scott

Image

by Weenie


sethjs
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

Here they are

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