Smart trainer and real world resistance

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
ParisCarbon
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:37 am
ParisCarbon wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:24 am

Cool... I raced today on the Velocious 20km race.. I paired my SRM as the powersource tonite instead of the Neo.. I ended up with about a 10 watt increase on average overall.. The top 20 were a combination of A/B tonite and we were within 9 seconds of one another... they're good for a change of pace, I prefer the videos myself.. rouvy now has cyclist avatars overlaying the videos onthe road , tacx has plans for this as well from what I understand...

10W difference is big even at A/B race pace. I wonder which power source is misbehaving...possibly both. All of my PMs are within 1-2W of each other up to about 260W. If the race is really punchy, then the Hammer will peak higher and skew the average. Generally the Neo is thought of as being incredibly accurate and I can't imagine you are losing 10W to drivetrain losses.
Yeah 10 watts is massive in A/B... Next time I do just specific intervals and not use the videos or zwift, I will run the Neo and SRM in parallel and see what I get.. last time I checked my SRM vs the Neo in the long haul they were nearly identical in the end. The SRM Im using just got a fresh battery/recalib down in Colorado in late August and doesnt have much time on it. I generally use slope mode on the software to set the resistance and then do intervals based on slope.. I should try it in erg mode just for the heck of it as well and see the outcome.. Ive been really happy with my Neo overall. The new beta software Im testing has a L/R balance now in TDA as well.. I don't have anything to compare it against though for accuracy.

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4027
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

ParisCarbon wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:24 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:00 am

I’ll record a race tomorrow on my Vectors, DZero and Hammer and overlay the results so you can see.
Cool... I raced today on the Velocious 20km race.. I paired my SRM as the powersource tonite instead of the Neo.. I ended up with about a 10 watt increase on average overall.. The top 20 were a combination of A/B tonite and we were within 9 seconds of one another... they're good for a change of pace, I prefer the videos myself.. rouvy now has cyclist avatars overlaying the videos onthe road , tacx has plans for this as well from what I understand...

DCR Analyzer

The race portion was 38min@255W (273W normalized.) 145bpm HR average...I think the short duration of the race brought the average down because I started at 101bpm.

But yeah, like I said, the DZero and Vector 3s are pretty much within 2-3 watts of each other at all times. The Hammer is accurate up to somewhere around 300W and then it starts getting generous, boosting shorter duration averages. No delays across any of the devices, they all react within a fraction of a second of each other. The only time I've ever experienced noticeable lag is when I used an NPE CABLE to bridge ANT+ over BT.

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:05 am
ParisCarbon wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:24 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:00 am

I’ll record a race tomorrow on my Vectors, DZero and Hammer and overlay the results so you can see.
Cool... I raced today on the Velocious 20km race.. I paired my SRM as the powersource tonite instead of the Neo.. I ended up with about a 10 watt increase on average overall.. The top 20 were a combination of A/B tonite and we were within 9 seconds of one another... they're good for a change of pace, I prefer the videos myself.. rouvy now has cyclist avatars overlaying the videos onthe road , tacx has plans for this as well from what I understand...

DCR Analyzer

The race portion was 38min@255W (273W normalized.) 145bpm HR average...I think the short duration of the race brought the average down because I started at 101bpm.

But yeah, like I said, the DZero and Vector 3s are pretty much within 2-3 watts of each other at all times. The Hammer is accurate up to somewhere around 300W and then it starts getting generous, boosting shorter duration averages. No delays across any of the devices, they all react within a fraction of a second of each other. The only time I've ever experienced noticeable lag is when I used an NPE CABLE to bridge ANT+ over BT.
Im doing low RPM intervals tonite using the Tacx software in slope mode.. I'll put on my bike with the SRM and record the watts/cadence and see what it does vs the Neo

EssexRider
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:53 am

by EssexRider

Does anyone have any thoughts on my proposal of inserting thin PTFE washers, 2No. per side maybe 0.5-0.7mm thick each to the rear drop-outs to allow the frame to move up and down with a Wahoo Kickr Climb device? In theory, the clamping force from a rear skewer isnt that high in reality compared to some applications of PTFE washer use and the friction coeff of PTFE is very very low.

Anyone thoughts?

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4027
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

On paper it sounds doable. The bore would have perfect to prevent play. Most skewer clamps are knurled though...must be a good reason for that...

mattr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

Really bad idea.
If it moves enough to allow the Climb device to rotate the frame, your first sprint will see you lying on the floor, possibly with one or both of your dropouts bent or snapped.

I'd just get a sufficiently up to date kickr, which i understand allows the bike to rotate around the rear axle.

mattr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

WHAT MAKES THE NEW KICKR AND NEW SNAP COMPATIBLE? WHY ISN’T MY OLD WAHOO TRAINER COMPATIBLE?
When using the KICKR CLIMB, bikes rotate around the rear wheel hub. The rear dropout attachment points on the new 2017 KICKR and KICKR SNAP models were specifically designed to accommodate this rotation, while previous Wahoo trainers do not have the freedom of motion necessary to rotate as needed. Using the KICKR CLIMB with older trainer models may cause permanent damage to your bike and/or trainer.

mattr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

Thinking about it, even if you only put the paired teflon washers between frame and trainer (both ends) and leave the outer face of the dropout clear to engage with the skewer, you've effectively halved your retention load on the frame.

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