Why bother to use sealant on tubular when its not so difficult to change tubular tyre ?

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
audioblazer
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:09 pm

by audioblazer

When I started road cycling 18 months ago I was introduced to Bora ultra tubular rim & I make a mistake of using Vittoria Corsa speed 23mm, so supple but easily punctured . After 4 rides, it punctured & I couldn’t seal it . Change to schwalbe Pro one HT . It performed better but still punctured . Next tubular tyre I used was gatorskin . Now this last much longer but I did experience puncture as well. Due to these experiences, I have phobia cycling with tubular tyres & proceeded to buy another set of clincher wheelset . Now that is definitely a cheaper option & hardly punctured but doesn’t ride as comfortably as a tubular rim wheelset .
A few days ago as I was preparing to ride my rarely ridden pegoretti with a tubular wheelset , due to fear of puncture, I discovered another puncture !!! I decided to rip off the tubular tyre . Hi, it’s not so difficult . In fact, it quite easy . I proceeded to experiment mounting ( without adding glue ) tubular tyre & find that I could easily mount a used schwalbe Corsa speed & Schwalbe Pro one Ht . Then I experimented with a new Gatorskin & Tufo S33 Pro ( hard tyre ) . Tougher but no problem at all . I even ripped off a Tufo tyre glued with rim tape . Now that was difficult but I managed to get it off the rim using a tyre lever . This give me a lot of confident to ride tubular rim wheelset .
If it’s not so difficult to remove & mount a tubular tyre ( granted it’s more troublesome compare to changing tube ), why bother to add sealant when there is a puncture ? After all sealants may not work with puncture. Anyway if it’s pump to high pressure, sealant may leak again . So why bother with messy failed sealant . Why don’t we just change tyre & do away with sealant ? What’s your thought ? Thanks

Mep
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by Mep

For me, a new tubular tire is 100 bucks whereas sealant is 5.

by Weenie


Alexandrumarian
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by Alexandrumarian

Do you ride on really crappy roads or do you simply ride a LOT? Sounds like lots of punctures to me. Roads here are mediocre and I have 6000Km since switching to tubs. Two punctures so far: one on rain and winter, probably was asking for it. Worn Veloflex rear. I added half a bottle of sealant, pumped with CO2 and finished my ride. Home I noticed the puncture happened inside an older sharp rock gravel cut which I had mended with super glue. Probably the hardened rubber chewed on the tube. I reinflated with air and it wasn't holding well so I replaced the tire.

Second was on brand new Corsa G+, this was really annoying. Didn't notice during ride but next day i found the tire flat with a big glass cut (probably when I avoided a pothole and ran outside the road in the dirt). Tube was again only very slightly damaged but opening up the tub is too much time and work fo rme so again I replaced it.

I ride with a bottle of sealant and two CO2, no spare, and I'm pork heavy. Tubs don't seem better or worse than clinchers, as with any wheel just need to take care to avoid glass - a curse on those damn drunkards that smash bottles on the road. Same care needed when passing near garbage areas. As for wires, screws etc...matter of luck.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

When I go out on tubs I have one or two spare tubs under the saddle. Sealant does not always work. I have a gatorskin tub where sealant has not worked. The tub now is not repairable due to the sealant. I won't be using sealant in tubs again.

audioblazer
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Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:09 pm

by audioblazer

Alexandrumarian wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:32 pm
Do you ride on really crappy roads or do you simply ride a LOT? Sounds like lots of punctures to me. Roads here are mediocre and I have 6000Km since switching to tubs. Two punctures so far: one on rain and winter, probably was asking for it. Worn Veloflex rear. I added half a bottle of sealant, pumped with CO2 and finished my ride. Home I noticed the puncture happened inside an older sharp rock gravel cut which I had mended with super glue. Probably the hardened rubber chewed on the tube. I reinflated with air and it wasn't holding well so I replaced the tire.

Second was on brand new Corsa G+, this was really annoying. Didn't notice during ride but next day i found the tire flat with a big glass cut (probably when I avoided a pothole and ran outside the road in the dirt). Tube was again only very slightly damaged but opening up the tub is too much time and work fo rme so again I replaced it.

I ride with a bottle of sealant and two CO2, no spare, and I'm pork heavy. Tubs don't seem better or worse than clinchers, as with any wheel just need to take care to avoid glass - a curse on those damn drunkards that smash bottles on the road. Same care needed when passing near garbage areas. As for wires, screws etc...matter of luck.
Road in Malaysia not exactly 1st class . Anyway I suppose I maybe riding it at too low a pressure ie around 100 psi front , 115 psi rear esp so for Vittoria Corsa speed with latex tube which leaks air pretty fast

audioblazer
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by audioblazer

bm0p700f wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:02 pm
When I go out on tubs I have one or two spare tubs under the saddle. Sealant does not always work. I have a gatorskin tub where sealant has not worked. The tub now is not repairable due to the sealant. I won't be using sealant in tubs again.
From my limited experience , Vittoria Pitstop not very effective . Just bought myself a bottle of effeto mariposa expresso & see whether it’s more effective . However is wondering if I use a sealant & it doesn’t work , it will be messy to change the tyre . So might as well just change the tubular & try to repair the tub after the ride

audioblazer
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Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:09 pm

by audioblazer

Mep wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:14 pm
For me, a new tubular tire is 100 bucks whereas sealant is 5.
U must be using a very good tub like Competition to cost that much & sealant is not that cheap in my part of the world . I can get a training tub like rubino pro or Tufo for about 2-3 times the cost of a can of sealant . Anyway thanks for your feedback

Alexandrumarian
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by Alexandrumarian

115 might actually be too high unless 23 wide. Your weight of course is very important too. The sealant I used and worked perfectly was Stans. Now I carry a bottle of Continental which has OK reviews too but knock on wood, didn't test yet.

mattr
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by mattr

bm0p700f wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:02 pm
The tub now is not repairable due to the sealant. I won't be using sealant in tubs again.
If it had been a decent tub, you could have replaced the tube. It's not difficult. It is on the other hand, time consuming. Probably worth it for me (no trade account!) but not for you. You'd probably need to be looking at a £100 tub, retail, to make it worthwhile!

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Even tub repairers won't replace a tube. I have a few MTB tubs that need new tubes. Can't find any one to do it and I lack the time to try. Have you seen my sewing? It's shocking.

I used effectively in the tub that punctured. At least it slowed the sir and sealed at 40 psi but leaked at 50.

Gary brown charges £14 for a tub repair. Its really not worth doing it myself and it makes using sealant pointless.

http://www.tubular-tyre-repair.co.uk/service/

mattr
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by mattr

:) My sewing is terrible too.

Peter Burgin (RIP) used to do tube replacements for about 25 quid i think. But i guess he made little or no money at it. Even though he was geared up for it.

For me, when i could be bothered to repair my own tubs, it was one of those "sit in front of the telly with a beer and your feet up." things. Doesn't matter if it takes 20 minutes or three hours.
Same as building wheels. If you're in the trade (thankfully i'm not!) it's a whole different kettle of fish!

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Q: If you change a tub midride without going through the proper gluing process, how confident are you in it not rolling off while cornering hard? Is this a concern or a non-issue?

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

never had an issue. my spares are pre glued and enough glue is left on the rim so a secure enough bond is created once you infalte the tyre properly. Changing a tub is generally quick too and it good to do in front of club mates as they are surprised how painless it is.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

audioblazer wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:05 pm
From my limited experience , Vittoria Pitstop not very effective . Just bought myself a bottle of effeto mariposa expresso & see whether it’s more effective . However is wondering if I use a sealant & it doesn’t work , it will be messy to change the tyre . So might as well just change the tubular & try to repair the tub after the ride
Sheesh, sounds like you've had a rough go of it, yet still sticking with it. I used Vittoria Pit stop once and never again. Mess everywehre. But to answer your topic title, no, I rarely have occasion to change a tubular on the road, and rarely get flats. But when I do, and not until, I'll use Orange Seal (the Regular stuff, not the "Endurance" formula). It's a bit misleading, but the Regular version has the best sealing properties when you just put some in at the time a flat occurs. The Endurance formula simply stays liquid longer in the tire if you prefill your tubs as a preventative measure. But once sealant is in them, you can never retire them and just bring them along as a spare, which is what I do. So, for a flat on the road, sealant, and it generally works, so much so that I can't recall the last time I've had to use the spare. I also never try to repair a tubular. Unless you want to do it as a labor of love, it's just not worth it. But I can't remember the last time that sealant wouldn't fix the type of punctures I might get, and they are very rare. Lucky me.

My spares are preglued Veloflex typically, that I've retired due to wear but still good enough for spares, and as a worn tire they fold up nice and tight. I'd never use a Conti as a spare because they're so difficult to mount, and I woldn't want to be fussed with that on the road. I suppose there was a time where I was concerend about riding a tubular that hadn't been properly glued but no more. This past summer I took off for a ride on a set of wheels that were just sitting on a bike with new tires stretching (not glued at all, nada). I thought I had already glued them but enough time went by that I forgot I just put them on those rims as "placeholders" to be glued at a later date. Well, I did the entire ride completely unaware they weren't glued. Near the end I noticed a hop in the rear wheel and had no idea what that was from. I couldn't see a noticeable bulge so checked it out when I got home and noticed that during braking, the tire would be creeping it's way around the rim then bunching up against the valve since that part couldn't move. I felt so lucky, but amazed that something bad didn't happen. There were no crazy technnical descents but there were some downhills with speeds and curves over 40mph. And that was with no glue. Don't do that, ever. But when I have mounted a preglued spare on the road, it's amazing how the pressure activates the contact cement (Vittoria Mastik) and how well it bonds to the rim.
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audioblazer
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Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:09 pm

by audioblazer

Another reason not to use sealant is that it clogged up the valve core . Every now & then , I have to remove the valve core when I pumped up the tyre. PIA to me

by Weenie


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