Road tubeless without sealant?

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Garrison
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by Garrison

Hi, sorry if this question has been asked before. I''m thinking of running tubeless, but prefer not to have to mess with sealant. I would rather just carry a tube if I get a flat. Anyone tried that before? Is sealant needed to seal the bead, or purely to seal leaks? Also, Schwalbe Pro Ones; how are they in terms of puncture resistance?

NovemberDave
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by NovemberDave

Some can be used without sealant, some actually aren't supposed to be used with sealant, and some must be used with sealant.

Most of the newer generation of performance oriented tubeless ready tires must be used with tires in order to hold air. Pro Ones are among that group. This is because the casings are made thinner and more porous in order to gain a more supple feel.

Pro Ones with sealant don't seem to get flats. Can't tell you about without, because they can't be used without sealant. I suppose you could use a very minimal amount of sealant and just add in small increments until the sidewalls became airtight. That would theoretically leave you with almost no pooled sealant to deal with. That may be something to try but isn't something I'd necessarily endorse.

Sounds like you are a good candidate for latex tubes. You more or less have to accept the minimal risk of a flat situation involving sealant in order to use road tubeless.
Last edited by NovemberDave on Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ergott
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by ergott

Your results may very, but not all tires seal well when inflated. That could mean you have a slow leak at the bead and lose enough air not to get through a whole ride.

You could install, let the bike sit overnight and see how well your tire/rim seals up. If it's good enough then you don't need sealant.

The thing is you are negating one of the really nice benefits of the system with sealant. Smaller cuts and punctures will seal up so you have fewer incidents when you need to repair out on the road.

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Orlok
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by Orlok

Garrison wrote:Hi, sorry if this question has been asked before. I''m thinking of running tubeless, but prefer not to have to mess with sealant. I would rather just carry a tube if I get a flat. Anyone tried that before? Is sealant needed to seal the bead, or purely to seal leaks? Also, Schwalbe Pro Ones; how are they in terms of puncture resistance?
Why don't use the sealant.? When you will have a puncture the sealant shall repair the puncture in 99% of the cases, so you can continue your ride without any problems.!

Tires like the Schwalbe Pro One are tubeless ready, that will mean that they need sealant to be air tight. The puncture resistance of these tires are like normales tires. Sometimes you have luck and sometimes don't. :wink:

Putting sealant in the tires are not a mess if you use a needle to put the sealant by the valve or even to put it by the sidewall before mounting the tire. :roll:
Once comes a time that you'll have a tailwind :D
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kulivontot
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by kulivontot

Depends on the tire and the rim and dumb luck. I've run schwalbe pro one with no sealant on Stan's rims. Vittoria corsa speeds would have random sidewall bubbles and went flat within a day. Typically i do this just to make sure the rim bed seals up first before committing to making a mess. If you can't get your tire to seat and hold air for at least a few minutes then you've got a leak in your rim bed and no amount of sealant will make your setup work.

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FIJIGabe
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by FIJIGabe

Ok, if you do a search on this, you'll find a bunch of posts, but here's the nutshell:

In the beginning there was Road Tubeless (capitalization is important). That's the original formula, developed by Shimano and Hutchinson. That combination was designed to be used without sealant. The edge of the tire was designed to seal into the bead of the rim, and provided a sealant-less seal. This system was costly and not adopted. Since then, we've been the development of tubeless road, TLR and other systems by other manufacturers. There's no specific standard, with each manufacturer developing their own technologies. These tires use a firm bead, that doesn't stretch, and requires sealant to provide a complete seal. Without the sealant, you will leak air, very quickly.

For tubeless, sealant is a fact of life, unless you can source some of the older 6700 or 7800 series Shimano wheels, and older Hutchinson tires (I don't think the new tires are RT compatible, either).
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Garrison
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by Garrison

I have read many using tubeless w/o sealant, but for mtb on lower pressures. Reason I don't wanna use sealant is cause I live in an apartment, no shed or anything like that. The wife will murder me if i make a mess with sealants. Also, i live in a city, roads are generally ok, punctures are not that common. If I do get one, I can still stick a tube in.

EvilEuro
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by EvilEuro

FIJIGabe wrote:In the beginning there was Road Tubeless (capitalization is important). That's the original formula, developed by Shimano and Hutchinson. That combination was designed to be used without sealant. The edge of the tire was designed to seal into the bead of the rim, and provided a sealant-less seal. This system was costly and not adopted. Since then, we've been the development of tubeless road, TLR and other systems by other manufacturers. There's no specific standard, with each manufacturer developing their own technologies. These tires use a firm bead, that doesn't stretch, and requires sealant to provide a complete seal. Without the sealant, you will leak air, very quickly.


Just to be clear here, are you referring to Road Tubeless being the same as UST wheelsets such as the Campagnolo 2-Way wheelsets?

You are correct in that there are not a lot of them out there. I have the Shamal 2-Ways and love them. I can confirm that they can be run without sealant and don't leak too much. However that is dependent upon the tyre being used. Schwalbe Pro One tyres seal up pretty tight, as do the Hutchinson Fusion 5's. However, the IRC Formula RBCC leak at a pretty consistent rate. Nothing that will bear out over a single day's long ride. But it is noticible after a couple of days. I always re-inflate to my desired pressures as a result before each ride.

That being said, I can't see a reason to ride tubeless without sealant. Even the smallest cut will deflate the tyre and that could be easily closed up with sealant.

TLR wheelsets and tyres are a completely different beast and I have minimal experience with them.

I do know that I had a devil of a time trying to work with a set of TLR tyres as they wouldn't seal on my Shamals regardless of what I did. Ended being that the TLR bead is a crapshoot when it comes to working with a UST rim profile. So I now make sure that all of my tyres are UST and not TLR.

Just wanted to make sure that I was reading your terminology correctly.

kulivontot
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by kulivontot

Considering that mavic just launched road UST today solely for mavic wheels and mavic tires, your description of anything being the same as road UST is likely inaccurate. There's a bikerumor.com series of articles that goes into more details about the history of the *f##k* that is road tubeless.
TLR only applies to trek/bontrager components/tires, yes? Is there anything special about them compared to other brands?

Op,
Do you currently have a tubeless compatible wheelset already that you want to try? Or are you considering buying new wheels/tires for this purpose? This will help direct the discussion into recommending a reasonable solution.

EvilEuro
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by EvilEuro

kulivontot wrote:Considering that mavic just launched road UST today solely for mavic wheels and mavic tires, your description of anything being the same as road UST is likely inaccurate. There's a bikerumor.com series of articles that goes into more details about the history of the *f##k* that is road tubeless.

TLR only applies to trek/bontrager components/tires, yes? Is there anything special about them compared to other brands?


If they're proprietary and won't accept another UST tyre then they shouldn't be calling either the rim or the tyre UST at all. Hence my wondering in another thread on the newly launched Mavic wheels if they are a true UST or not. If they are, they'll accept other UST tyres.

Mavic has been trying to go the "full wheel system" route of paired wheels and tyres for a few years now. That has not meant that any of their other rims won't take non-Mavic tyres. I can't see why this would be any different. I read the launch article from VeloNews and it touted that they Mavic tyre is made to work with the rim. It did not state that other tyres wouldn't work with the rim. It was part news article, part sales pitch. So yes, they highlighted that the Mavic tyre is the tyre to use with the wheel.

TLR is not exclusive to Trek/Bontrager components. Maxxis makes a "tubeless ready" version of the Padrone as well as a UST tubeless version of the Padrone.

I would say that TLR is more analagous to "tubeless ready" and have seen the two terms used interchangeably, i.e. can become tubeless with the use of tubeless rim tape and sealant. Enve's new "tubeless" carbon wheelsets are actually "tubeless ready" as they require rim tape. This is as opposed to the Easton Aero 55, which is fully tubeless with a sealed rim and requires no rim tape.

As for the OP, if you're worried about making a mess and upsetting your other half then there are ways to put sealant into the tyre without getting it everywhere. Effeto Mariposa make a sealant injector that is very nice. It is very good at keeping sealant from going everywhere. Remove the valve core after mounting and seating the tyre and use the injector. Simple, easy, effective, and minimal clean up, if any. The product page is here: http://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/produc ... -injector/ and you can find it for sale at Amazon or any number of other online retailers.

That'll work regardless of if the OP has a UST or tubleless ready wheelset.

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FIJIGabe
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by FIJIGabe

The original Shimano/Hutchinson Road Tubeless setup specifically advised you to NOT use sealant. Back then, the only option was Stans, which used ammonia in its formulation. That ammonia ate the aluminum rim beds on the 7800 series rims, making it impossible to get a seal in place.

The complete history is pretty well documented here:

https://www.bikerumor.com/2015/01/14/wh ... -get-here/

Regarding TLR or any other term you want to use, none of those are official standards. There is no common interface between the bead and tire, which is why you need sealant to "fill in the gaps" so to speak. They have some things in common (a tough, non-stretching bead, for example), but the sealing action is really performed by your sealant, which is why you need to keep an eye on it, and replace it every so often.


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Geoff
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by Geoff

I have heard of people doing that, but I do not personally understand it. Road tubeless really works well with the use of sealant. Not only does it help the system seal-up during the initial installation and keep it sealed whilst not being ridden, but it will allow small punctures to be sealed during a ride. If you do not use the sealant and rely on a back-up tube only, what is the point of using tubeless versus clincher in the first place?

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Miller
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by Miller

Sealant is the secret sauce of tubeless that makes a lot of punctures either non-issues or survivable with some additional air.

If you don't want to make a mess in the flat, put a sheet down. And do the messy stuff when your other half isn't there!

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Orlok
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by Orlok

Geoff wrote:I have heard of people doing that, but I do not personally understand it. Road tubeless really works well with the use of sealant. Not only does it help the system seal-up during the initial installation and keep it sealed whilst not being ridden, but it will allow small punctures to be sealed during a ride. If you do not use the sealant and rely on a back-up tube only, what is the point of using tubeless versus clincher in the first place?
+1
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Pinarello F10 - Ultegra 6800 - Carbonspeed C38 - Tubeless

mattr
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by mattr

Miller wrote:If you don't want to make a mess in the flat, put a sheet down. And do the messy stuff when your other half isn't there!
Used to do that when we lived in a flat. TBH, it was total overkill. Never spilt more than a couple of drops. 10 seconds with a wet cloth would have sorted it.

Now i have a workshop i'm a little more lackadaisical. Floor is pretty much rubberised, except for where the oil spills are. :|

Maybe tap up a club mate for some garage space and beers for an hour or two?

by Weenie


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