Training to improve time on 12K climb

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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sanrensho
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by sanrensho

indigo, by Z4 I mean 95-105% FTP.

dgran, the climb is Mt. Seymour in Vancouver, Canada.

I have to keep the running due to low bone density. The upside being that it is quick to get out the door in any weather and it keeps me mentally fresh for the days on the bike. I only trail run and have an extensive trail network in my backyard, so it is a nice change of pace from roads.

Yes, my weaknesses on this climb are needing to stand up on the stiffer grades due to lack of power, and low cadence (typically 72-78 rpm). Form is pretty good I think, I've done this climb so many times that I am conscious of when my form starts to deteriorate.

I do struggle sometimes at the end of the climb and am hoping to fix this by building up to 6x10, 4x15 and 3x20 Z4 threshold work. Hopefully.

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Zoro
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by Zoro

Lift weights 2-3 days and cut down intensity.

As this is an edit on my post, I am a bit amiss on how many miles you should train for a 12K hill. Being light is important. But 12K? Be lean, and lift weights. And ride a bit. 12K is hard to comment on.

I'd suggest riding a lot less, doing weights more and riding for recovery.

Riding alone will not do it (best 12K time).

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Tapeworm
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by Tapeworm

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devinci
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by devinci

LOLLLL

dton13
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by dton13

sanrensho wrote:indigo, by Z4 I mean 95-105% FTP.

dgran, the climb is Mt. Seymour in Vancouver, Canada.


Hey sanrensho, just out of curiosity, what is your time up the climb? I just started riding this year and I've climbed Seymour twice and love it. Would be great to have you as motivation to climb it more often haha.

Cheers


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sanrensho
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by sanrensho

^^Last year was my worst climbing year and I could no better than a paltry 55+ minutes. I nearly matched that time doing a 2x20 workout yesterday, so I'm hopeful that I'm on the right track.

efeballi
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by efeballi

If your cadence drops to 72 rpm at the steepest part, you can't surge strong enough to keep cadence up. I know you aren't racing anyone, but still conditions change and keeping the same power/effort does not always work. So, you should focus on shorter intervals and also pacing. You'll climb faster if you go a bit easier below there and push HARD up that section (of course, without blowing).
I'm assuming your optimal cadence is around 90-100 rpm. If you mash it at 80 rpm then it isn't such a big deal.

You may also need lower gearing to keep cadence up over that part.
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sanrensho
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by sanrensho

Thanks again for the suggestions efeballi.

Will definitely work on those shorter intervals. I've done HIIT under Carmichael's Time-Crunched Training Plan, but is there a typical amount of time in Z5 that I should shoot for, such as 25 minutes (5x5)? Or just do as many intervals as I can sustain at Z5?

efeballi
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by efeballi

I'd say 5 and 2 min intervals at Z5. The 2 min efforts should be full gas, seated. 15-20 minutes of intervals. First ones should be 2 min, last ones should be 5.
Do less intervals than you can sustain as that would reduce the effectiveness of the last intervals.



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sanrensho
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by sanrensho

Just to follow up.

I've settled into the following tweaked schedule which is basically two quality days (threshold work, then VO2 max intervals) followed by a recovery day. Then two quality days followed by a long ride and then recovery on Sunday (family day).

I'm not very focused on long or group rides, but I'm glad that I took everyone's advice and added a long ride (recovery/LSD in my case). The advice to add VO2 max intervals into the mix was also very helpful. Turns out it is a perfect 2nd quality day after threshold work the day before.

My segment times continue to improve, although I can't say for certain how much my FTP has improved. I'm finding that the 8-minute FTP test is not an accurate gauge as my power has improved in every way, yet my 8-minute power tests about the same.

Monday: Threshold (Z4) work, 60 minutes @ 95%+ FTP (1.5 hr)
Tuesday: VO2 Max (Z5) intervals, 25 minutes @ 105%+ FTP (1.5 hr)
Wednesday: Recovery ride or easy run (Z2) (1 hr)
Thursday: Threshold (Z4) work, 60 minutes @ 95%+ FTP (1.5 hr)
Friday: VO2 Max (Z5) intervals, 25 minutes @ 105%+ FTP (1.5 hr)
Saturday: Distance ride (Z2/3 with a few short Z4 efforts) (2-3 hrs)
Sunday: Rest day (or Z2 recovery ride/easy run) (1 hr)

I think this schedule will also work for me in the winter when we get a lot of rain, and I can do an LSD ride once a week (Wednesday or Saturday/Sunday) to supplement indoor TrainerRoad workouts.

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Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez
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by Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez

I haven't read everyone's pov but here is mine:

If you want to better your time on a 12km climb, you need to learn to climb faster on shorter distances and then increasing the length of each laps.

In the same climb, instead of riding tempo, cut the climb in parts, climb substantially above your usual ascensionnal speed (the one that you can hold 12km) during 3x 3km laps at first

Then 4x3km, then 3x4km, 3x5km, increasing week after week the length of the laps, you will work above your usual threshold on shorter parts, but added together the duration will be equal or above your 12km record.

If you can work 3x6km, then 2x8km at speeds above your usual climbing time, I bet you will improve much better your 12km record because you have speed reserve.

You can't gain endurance at threshold without working your speed.

Edit: I was talking of km, but it's just an example, you can talk about times interval, or whatever
Let's picture that your 12km is your 10 000m athletics. Runners don't do 10km every day faster at training. They need speed reserve so they feel comfortable at their previous threshold. They will do shorter distances and increase few by few so that at the end of the day they have trained at bigger speed during the same duration or more.

During the week you can do shortlaps one day, and bigger laps another day, so you will both work on your anaerobic threshold and maximal aerobic power.

sanrensho
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by sanrensho

So effectively progressive 4x12, 3x17, 3x20, 3x25, 2x33 intervals at Z5 (supra-threshold). I will definitely work on this as my fitness improves. Probably once a week for now and in place of my Z4 intervals right at threshold.
Last edited by sanrensho on Wed May 27, 2015 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

hobopleb
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by hobopleb

I'm definitely going to hop in this thread and take the training advice seeing as I haven't even attempted to climb seymour yet, but definitely going to try it this summer

mrfish
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by mrfish

Couple of points: I don't think that doing hard intervals will keep providing improvements. Sometimes you need to work on building a bigger aerobic foundation before adding the top end through the intervals. Secondly the training needs some progression to provide overload. I'm a big fan of training peaks performance manager chart - in short CTL translates pretty directly to fitness if you can raise it steadily and progressively.

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