DuraAce 9000 10 speed wheel compatibility

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
skinnywellfed
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:41 am

by skinnywellfed

@ Elviento,

once you can log some miles it would be much appreciated if you could give a ride report for;

Full Campy bike running the D Ace 9k cassette

and a

Full D Ace 9k bike running the Campy (11) casette.

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hjb1000
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:25 am
Location: Australia

by hjb1000

Okay so I have got a partial DA 9000 groupset including CS-9000 11-28T cassette. I do not as yet have a 11-speed compatible wheelset therefore I'm going to start off as 10-speed while I decide on a suitable wheelset. I'm going to therefore run the 9000 cassette as a 10-speed by removing one of the sprockets.

My question is, what would be the best sprocket to remove?

The 11-28T cassette has the following ratios:

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28

I have to keep the 11T don't I as this is the only sprocket compatible with the lockring?

skinnywellfed
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:41 am

by skinnywellfed

In these situations it helps to look at what Shimano does with the rest of the cassettes they offer for comparison.

here are the 7900 (10)spd cassettes
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techd ... 728250.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

here are the 9000 (11)spd cassettes
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techd ... 807221.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The DA9K (11) spd, 11 - 28 cassette has to be the most "unfriendly" in terms of being easily modified. Like all the cassettes you won't be able to pull any of the last (5) cogs. If you pull the (12)tooth cog it may 'feel odd'. If you pull the (17) you would have a jump from the (15) to the (19), not good.

I believe you can pull the (11) tooth cog with no problems. You would have to install a lockring for a (12) tooth cog. And you would need a spacer behind the cassette.
In this Thread the O.P. pulled their (11) tooth cog.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=108205" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mid way down on the 2nd page the O.P. describes pulling the (11)tooth cog.

Swapping the 11 - 28 you have for an 11 - 25 would be ideal. You could easily pull the (16)tooth cog.
Let us know how it goes.

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hjb1000
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:25 am
Location: Australia

by hjb1000

^Thanks for the reply, most helpful.

So if I remove the 11T, I'll need to change the lockring. The spacer that I need behind the cassette will presumably be included with the 9000 cassette? No other spacer needed?
Need to find a 12T lockring then.

Thanks,

skinnywellfed
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:41 am

by skinnywellfed

Right, find a lock ring for the (12) tooth cog.

The DA9K wheels are shipping with the spacer required to run the wheel as a (10) spd wheel.
Since that's what you're going to do, run a (10)sp cassette, contact a bike shop and get the spacer you need. It doesn't have to be a DA9K spacer. Many companies make cassette spacers. Just make sure you space it for a proper fit of the cassette.

Let us know how it goes.

skinnywellfed
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:41 am

by skinnywellfed

Elviento,
have you logged any miles with the 'crossed up' combos, Campy & DA9K?

Irish
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:57 pm
Location: Ireland

by Irish

Campagnolo 9 speed was introduced in 1997 and the freewheels work with 11spd , thats 17 years of backwards compatability, only in 2008 did shimano make their 9/10spd freewheel splines compatible, now with 11 there's another different standard thats 6 years since a major revision, and apparently campagnolo 11spd freewheels/cassettes work with new 11 spd Shimano :noidea: .

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 1889
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

I think you're off on your Shimano compatibility. I have 7700 hubs, 8sp hubs introduced in 1997, that can handle a 10sp cassette. The 7800 hubs introduced in 2008 were 10sp only, when Shimano tried a new (to them) cassette body architecture, but the 10sp cassettes were able to be fitted to previous generation Shimano hubs. All 10 sp hubs subsequent to 7800, ie the 7850 and 7900 hubs, were able to take 10/9/8sp cassettes.

maxxevv
Posts: 1958
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:51 am

by maxxevv

The history part is completely off on most parts.

The outgoing 10s 'low spline' specification was introduced on the 8 speed hyperglide spline in 1992. And all the way till 7900, they have been completely compatible forward and backward compatible. 2012, after 20 years, they finally introduce a new standard that's still backward compatible to fit all the 8,9 and 10 speed cassettes. ( albeit, you can't fit 11s cassette on the older hubs )

The only abnormally along the way was during the introduction of the 7800 10s group, they tried to introduce the new 'tall spline' hyperglide freehub (in a bit to use aluminium freehub body) that was not backward compatible with older cassettes. BUT ... the 10s 7800 cassettes were still completely back compatible with older hubs and splines. But that was quickly phased out within less than a year due to backlash.

As for Campag ... guess it was conveniently forgotten about what happened when they introduced their 9 speed freehubs huh ??

insightt47
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 3:02 am

by insightt47

Has anyone tried using a cs-9000 cassette with 10 speed wheels by removing one of the cogs? If so please let us know how you went!

TheDoc
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:43 pm

by TheDoc

Hey guys, just took a plunge and got a '13 cannondale evo with DA9000. Been looking around on the option of using my old 10speed wheels...

- Has anyone try it with 11speed conversion cassette such as the one from Wheels Manufacturing?
- or would I be better off with just get a campy freehub for my wheels and use a chorus 11speed cassette


There is a thread in the Road Index for this...

KB
Posts: 3868
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:32 pm
Location: HULLGARIA UK

by KB

Mine’s a slightly different problem.

I have one bike with D Ace 9000 and have put a 12-28 cassette on my Mavic wheels and everything works fine. However, I’m building up another steel bike with some older SRAM Force for which I have some wheels with a 12-27 D Ace cassette. Again, works absolutely fine in that configuration.

Two questions:
1) Can I run a 10 speed cassette with the 11 speed 9000 levers? What I want to do is basically go back to using 10 speed for my wheels.
2) Can I use the wheels with the 11 speed cassette and get it to work with the SRAM? Presume removing a sprocket!

Appreciate any help on this.

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743power
Shop Wrench
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Location: Colorado

by 743power

Doc - we need more info on your wheels to determine possibility of replacing free hub with 11spd one. There is no way to use an 11s shimano or sram cassette on a 10 spd free hub though.

KB - I have a customer who has two ten speed and one 11 spd bikes and he'll occasionally switch wheels and forget about the different cassettes. Through this, I have found that there is simply no way for what you're trying to do to work. You can get it to work OK through a few gears but it will be awful in the rest.
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."

TheDoc
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:43 pm

by TheDoc

@743 it's a novatec 482sb rear hub. I could swap by shimano 10s freehub for a campy freehub and go with a chorus cassette, but am not sure whether it'll work or even worth the price.

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Packs
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:28 am
Location: Cheltenham

by Packs

I just removed the 14 cog from my 11 speed cassette (12-25) and used two 1mm spacers on a 7900 hub.
Tried it in my Di2 11 bike and it all worked perfectly.

The 12 and 13 slot together so you can only remove the 14, 15, 16 or 17

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