BHS c472w vs. H Plus Son Archetype

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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jmilliron
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by jmilliron

WMW wrote:I think the Stan's 340 is a better bet... 50-60g lighter per rim than the A23, a little stiffer, and it produces the widest and roundest tire profile.


Does it? The short sidewalls make up for it only being 20mm wide?
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Imaking20
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by Imaking20

That's curious to me as well... perhaps I need to throw a Conti on my buddy's 340 and compare widths with my C2
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WMW
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by WMW

jmilliron wrote:Does it? The short sidewalls make up for it only being 20mm wide?


The interior width is also much greater than a normal 20mm rim. The tire width was higher on a 340 vs C472 and it seemed to be rounder also.
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istigatrice
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by istigatrice

I like the direction in which this thread is heading... could we change it to c472w vs Archetype vs HED C2 vs 340 vs A23? Instead of just c472w vs Archetype?
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neverwasbeen
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by neverwasbeen

I agree verycreativeusername, there's lot's of threads comparing one or two and a more comprehensive discussion is very useful.

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MajorMantra
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by MajorMantra

WMW wrote:I think the Stan's 340 is a better bet... 50-60g lighter per rim than the A23, a little stiffer, and it produces the widest and roundest tire profile.


Stiffer? I thought the 340 was the rim everyone complained wasn't stiff enough. Or am I misreading you?

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WMW
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by WMW

MajorMantra wrote:Stiffer? I thought the 340 was the rim everyone complained wasn't stiff enough. Or am I misreading you?


Nope. The A23 isn't a stiff rim, because it is quite shallow. I'm guessing that the new 340 is a little stiffer than the A23, but anyway it should be close.

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fio
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by fio

Some Archetype weights:

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Lighter one is the 20 hole version. Going to be building these with an Alchemy ELF and PowerTap G3, 20/24 with CX Rays. Really looking forward to the new build, especially with respect to stiffness and ride quality. Currently I have the ELF built into A23's with a PT PRO hub in the rear. I'll post some feedback once I get some miles on the new build!

Imaking20
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by Imaking20

WMW wrote:
MajorMantra wrote:Stiffer? I thought the 340 was the rim everyone complained wasn't stiff enough. Or am I misreading you?


Nope. The A23 isn't a stiff rim, because it is quite shallow. I'm guessing that the new 340 is a little stiffer than the A23, but anyway it should be close.


I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you here. I've got one racing buddy on Velocity A23 Comps (24/28 spoke) (Cat 3 roadie/Cat 1 MTB weighing in at 160lbs) and another friend on a custom 340 build - 28/28 build on AC hubs (strong Masters rider but only 135lbs).
The rider on the A23 uses them as an all round wheelset and I've seen him smack some nasty potholes on quick descents - the rims are rock solid after 4000+ miles this year, including a couple crashes.
The rider on the 340 build uses them ONLY for races and I have seen those wheels look like they were going to collapse coming around a corner in a crit race.

I'd secretly love for you to be correct about the stiffness of the 340 (so I could build a set) but what I've seen in person does not support your argument.
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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

I'm going to disagree completely with Imaking20 on the Alpha 340 comments.
I weigh more (155lbs, as a fat ass), have less spokes 20/24, and the 340's have been nothing but phenomenal. Stiff? Yes.
Race wheels? Yes
Everyday riding? Yes
Off road? Yes

So... yeah what I've seen in person does not support YOUR argument, Imaking20.
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Rush
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by Rush

There was an old thread titled "The 23mm rim thread" or similar which ran for about 7 pages. Maybe the mods could merge it with this one as it was a good source of information.

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jmilliron
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by jmilliron

prendrefeu wrote:So... yeah what I've seen in person does not support YOUR argument, Imaking20.


There are two generations of Alpha 340 rims. You guys may both be correct. They added like 40g per rim on the second gen ones, right?
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istigatrice
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by istigatrice

Imaking20 wrote:I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you here. I've got one racing buddy on Velocity A23 Comps (24/28 spoke) (Cat 3 roadie/Cat 1 MTB weighing in at 160lbs) and another friend on a custom 340 build - 28/28 build on AC hubs


Don't AC hubs have a terrible flange spacing? Wouldn't that lead to a flexy wheel? If the Velocity's were built up on some ELF/ORCs I wouldn't say that this is a fair comparison
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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

@jmilliron

Correct. Not sure about how much more weight was added, but 40g seems rather high. I think it was less than that, but a weigh gain nonetheless.

My first gen wheels were fine - stiff, raceworthy, strong.
It took quite a while, but eventually the rear rim failed at a spoke. That was a long, long time after riding it in adverse weather conditions, off road, rough pavement, smooth pavement, brake-heavy descents, and on. The failure happened while moving rather slowly over a construction zone, flat land. Before that they never needed truing.

Replaced that rim (rear) with new generation (2nd generation if we're counting) and it's just as before: stiff, raceworthy, strong, durable. They've been taken off road for miles, no problem. Unfortunately the new rim was built up before I got a chance to weigh it personally - a mechanic that was a little too eager to ride it himself. Front wheel is still first generation, 20h, going strong, never needing truing.

I think they're great wheels. The cost per rim is much higher than the H Plus Son, A23, and BHS c472w... perhaps near pricing for the HED C2s which are hard to come by, but they are lighter, tubeless convert-able, and have a nice profile.
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Imaking20
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by Imaking20

prendrefeu wrote:I'm going to disagree completely with Imaking20 on the Alpha 340 comments.
I weigh more (155lbs, as a fat ass), have less spokes 20/24, and the 340's have been nothing but phenomenal. Stiff? Yes.
Race wheels? Yes
Everyday riding? Yes
Off road? Yes

So... yeah what I've seen in person does not support YOUR argument, Imaking20.



I was waiting for you :twisted:


What hubs are you running?

And I also recall the V2 rim coming in at ~380g. The wheels I referred to previously are V1 though.
As I said, I'd love to be convinced that I could run a set (I weigh 170-175) but that rear wheel flex is a hard image to shake for me.

verycreativeusername: the A23 are not built up on Alchemy hubs - they're out of the box from Velocity. Stans supplied complete V1 340 wheelsets with AC hubs IIRC.
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