ax-lightness frame with 580gr?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
donald
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:32 pm
Location: san francisco ca. usa

by donald

Strobbekoen, My experience tells me that comfort, stiffness and durability can combine in a very light frame. I have that in my three year old 54 cm. 610 gram Ruegamer. So I think it is possible for AX to do it.

Junior Varsity
in the industry
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 2:08 am
Location: behind the scenes pulling strings

by Junior Varsity

Maybe we should call it "inline" production. An example would be a bike or frame that is pre made and not Built "to order". I.e. If you can go to the company's wharehouse and there are rows of boxes containing frames/bike that are ready to fill orders that haven't been placed yet.
Doing bike things.

Twitter

by Weenie


User avatar
mythical
Posts: 1489
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:49 am
Location: Europe
Contact:

by mythical

Yesterday, I went out riding with a guy who's building his own frames. He's an expert on carbon but not really active in the bike industry. His latest frame weighs 460g for a 580mm top tube with ISP and he's about 1m80 himself. I reckon AX is being conservative... :roll:

I guess project California now needs to make leaps to keep up.
“I always find it amazing that a material can actually sell a product when it’s really the engineering that creates and dictates how well that material will behave or perform.” — Chuck Teixeira

RideWert.com
Wert Cycling on Facebook

User avatar
djconnel
Posts: 7926
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

by djconnel

I'm really excited to see some geometry numbers on this frame. From what I can distill from Nils in the Google translation of the Light-Bikes.de forum, it's still a prototype.

BrianAllan
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:27 pm
Location: Location Location!

by BrianAllan

good god that is an ugly photoshop job. If you're going to build a $6000 frame or whatever it costs, spend the $500 and have it professionally photographed.

Ypsylon
Posts: 1403
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 6:25 pm

by Ypsylon

djconnel wrote:I'm agnostic on that fork: it looks like a wind bucket. But maybe not. In other regards, it looks very promising!


Since there's nothing much else to speak about... I thought the same in the beginning, but my own eyeball windtunnel has failed me several times and AX are involved with F1 racing, so I bet they chat about stuff like that.

And for shallow section rims with a highish number of spokes that are most likely used with this fork it makes sense to cut down on spoke-fork interactions.
"Nothing compares to the simple pleasures of a bike ride," said John F. Kennedy, a man who had the pleasure of Marilyn Monroe.

Epic-o
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:18 pm

by Epic-o

mythical wrote:Yesterday, I went out riding with a guy who's building his own frames. He's an expert on carbon but not really active in the bike industry. His latest frame weighs 460g for a 580mm top tube with ISP and he's about 1m80 himself. I reckon AX is being conservative... :roll:

I guess project California now needs to make leaps to keep up.


Pics?

User avatar
HammerTime2
Posts: 5428
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed

by HammerTime2

Ypsylon wrote:
djconnel wrote:I'm agnostic on that fork: it looks like a wind bucket. But maybe not. ...
... I thought the same in the beginning, but my own eyeball windtunnel has failed me several times and AX are involved with F1 racing, so I bet they chat about stuff like that.
But keep in mind it's called AX Lightness, not AX Aeroness.

User avatar
bikerjulio
Posts: 1901
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

GonaSovereign wrote:
2 wheels wrote:
GonaSovereign wrote:How about the Canadian C? :)

The Canadian C is now the Swiss C, they moved their headquaters to Switzerland a couple of years ago.

No, I meant the Canadian C, Cannondale.

Kidding.

Cervelo is as Canadian as ever, even if the bean counters are in Neuchatel. Just like Cannnondale isn't Canadian even though it's owned by Procycle.

Now back to the AX bike...


Cannondale is owned by Dorel with HQ in Montreal.

http://www.dorel.com/product.htm
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

Ypsylon
Posts: 1403
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 6:25 pm

by Ypsylon

Good point, but...

...I'm not sure if I read it before and half remembered and then stole the thought, or if it's coincidence:

Notre Nils said here:


Dass sie in der Mitte ein wenig bauchiger ist, hat im Übrigen aerodynamische Gründe (die Designidee stammt von einem Aerodynamiker von BMW-Sauber F1): durch die Rotation des Rades entstehen Luftverwirbelungen, die dann auf die Gabelscheiden treffen, gebrochen werden und so zu schlechten Verwirbelungen werden, die in der Folge das Rad abbremsen. Indem die Holme etwas ausseinander geführt werden haben die Verwirbelungen des Laufrades mehr Platz ungehindert hindurchzuwandern. Zudem werden durch die Form die Luftströme durch die Vorwärtsbewegung des Rades ein wenig um die Beine des Fahrer herumgeleitet. Ist natürliche dennoch keine wirklich Aero-Gabel, aber hat schon seinen Sinn das Design.


The wide middle part is there for aerodynamic reasons(the idea is from a BMW-Sauber F1 aerodynamics engineer): The rortation of the wheel causes turbulences, hitting the fork they are broken and turn into bad turbulences, slowing the bike down. Moving the legs outward gives these turbulences more room to pass through. Also the airflow is being led around the riders legs a little. Of course it's not a pure aero fork, but there is a reason behind the shape.

If the translation sucks, it's mine, not his. So it's not really wind tunnel tested, but they tried to make it more aero without adding weight. If they succeeded, who knows?
"Nothing compares to the simple pleasures of a bike ride," said John F. Kennedy, a man who had the pleasure of Marilyn Monroe.

pedalatlet
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:38 pm
Location: Sweden

by pedalatlet

Short video from Facebook showing the AX-Lightness Alpha frame:

AX-Lightness Alpha

Time to start saving anyone? :D
/Ola a.k.a PedalAtlet™
Storck Fascenario 0.7 @ 5,975 kg

User avatar
djconnel
Posts: 7926
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

by djconnel

I can't view it. Any geometry info?

User avatar
pk0r
AKA "The Nils"!
Posts: 1070
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 11:01 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

by pk0r

Further specs will be released peu á peu. We do not want to spoil it all too much at once. The geometries will be rather race orientated than tourist as one will come to see..
Further info/news either in here or especially also on our FaceBook site.
| http://www.ax-lightness.de |
| pk0r.com | "I respect the work in coloring parts but the result is stupid-monkey in silk clothes is still monkey." |

Epic-o
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:18 pm

by Epic-o

Axel Schnura said:
size 55 cm, 691g, 102 Nm/°

580gr in 48 size?

User avatar
djconnel
Posts: 7926
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

by djconnel

Assuming mass proportional to the square of the size, that would be a 50 cm frame.

I suspect what we're seeing is a deviation from the previous trend that smaller frames tended to be over-built for a given large-frame stiffness spec. Which is why frames in the 56 cm range from Guru and maybe even AX-Lightness are coming out heavier than some might expect, given the weight claimed on a small size. In the case of Guru, the "claimed weight" in question is the small display frame from Interbike last October.

If you simply use the same tubes and cut them shorter, or use a smaller mold with the same diameters and lay-up, small frames are going to be stiffer in absolute terms, and when combined with lighter, less powerful riders, it just makes no sense.

Just a guess.

That said, if the geometry numbers are favorable, sign me up for the Weight Weenies group buy :). I assume there's going to be a Weight Weenies group buy, right?

by Weenie


Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post