Does 650B still make sense when you can fit 700x45 tyres?

Especially for light weight issues concerning cyclocross / touring bikes & parts.

Moderator: Moderator Team

justRideIt
Posts: 202
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:10 am
Location: Germany

by justRideIt

Tobic wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:15 am
How wide are the 2.2" RaceKings in your hands? BRR reports about 51mm width on 17.4mm inner rim, but I recon those will come out wider if mounted onto a 25mm inner rim.
On my DT Swiss wheels with 24mm internal width the Race King is 55mm wide, inflated at 1.4 bar / 20 PSI. Exactly as specified by Continental (dimensions 55-584).

The 2.2" Speed King on the same rim and pressure measures 1mm wider at 56mm.
2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.35-ish kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=159454
2021 Specialized Diverge viewtopic.php?f=10&t=165482

CustomMetal
Moderator
Posts: 919
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:14 pm
Location: UK

by CustomMetal

Tobic wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:15 am
How wide are the 2.2" RaceKings in your hands? BRR reports about 51mm width on 17.4mm inner rim, but I recon those will come out wider if mounted onto a 25mm inner rim.
CustomMetal wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:39 pm
justRideIt wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:35 pm
I can confirm the love for the 27.5" Continental Race Kings. I run the 2.2" wide tires in the Race Sport version, which are veeery fluffy and smooth. Magic carpet ride, I call it.
Though the Race Sports are not tubeless ready, I run them tubeless.
Setup is not so easy, the sidewalls collapse very quickly. Also they need a lot of sealant (I use ca. 150-200ml and top up after 3-4 months) and a handful of rides until they hold air properly.


Image

Image
I've got custom 650b ti mud guards (fenders) coming for my gravel bike 🤩 best of all worlds 🥳
I'll let you know when I pick them up at the end of the month
Perdita- Burls Ti 8kg
Aurelia- Saffron Stainless 9.7kg
Bertha- Trek SC
Verity- Sturdy Ti Aero (coming)
Serenity- Sturdy Ti Gravel 9.9kg
Allegra- Sturdy Steel Lugged (coming)
Jolene- Tifosi Alu 8kg
Alya- Tifosi Mons 4.84kg
Wilda- Spoon Vars Disc (coming)

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



zaykay
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:14 am

by zaykay

Jdadour wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:04 am
Karvalo wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:31 pm

Honestly my prediction would be that 650x47 fades away into a small and outdated niche as more and more new single track/adventure capable bikes will fit 700s up towards 50mm and 650s in MTB sizes. Then most new race gravel bikes will still fit 700x45 and not care about 650s.
100% this. I'm new to gravel as of last year, and from what I gather, 650B got popular years back when people couldnt fit more than 700x38 or 700x40 on their bikes.

On my Carbonda 696 (which can fit up to 700x50), I recently tried out a 650bx48 wheelset to compare against my 700x40. The 650bx48 was more twitchy, less stable, and less confidence inspiring than the 700x40. It was clear and obvious. In my opinion, theres no benefit to having 650b unless you are really limited on tire clearance. 700x45 or 700x50 is just going to get even better in terms of handling and stability.
After owning 696 and now Look 765 gravel the above is more about the frameset and geometry than the wheelsize. 696 worked a lot better with 700 wheels than 650b. I don't think that 696 is anymore on par with modern gravel frames. On my Look 765 gravel the difference is a lot smaller and 650b is great for anything closer to single track or technical stuff.

jemima
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:36 am
Location: Perth

by jemima

Installed a new Speedking 2.2" tubeless on a 22mmInner and it came out at 56.1 after a couple days.

Was chasing the Raceking Racesport a few weeks back. Saw them at Wiggle but it seems these ones with the silver lettering are some kind of OEM? version, as they only came up a little over 51mm. Not happy, but at least I now know to only get the yellow lettering ones.

Now trying out a Kenda Sabre Pro TR 2.4" on the front. 513gm. 55.6mm at install. Center tread depth a little taller than ThunderBurt.
Easy to install and held air for a few hours. Supple.
Curve Grovel ti.

jemima
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:36 am
Location: Perth

by jemima

-
Curve Grovel ti.

eljamoquio
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:26 am

by eljamoquio

CampagYOLO wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:06 pm
eljamoquio wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:55 pm
CampagYOLO wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:32 am
If your gravel bike is N=1 then 650x47 has roughly the same ride height as 700x28 meaning no adjustment of the seatpost each time you swap wheels.
Uh, you're changing the seatpost height relative to your wheel size? My legs stay the same length regardless of wheel size and thus I keep my seatpost at the same height regardless of tire size. I'd just assumed everyone else did the same thing too.
Thanks for proving my point.

Switching from 700x47 to 700x28 would change the ride height, 650x47 to 700x28 doesn't.

I agree with Ryan, 650b is better if the majority of your riding is off road and incliudes a decent amount of singletrack.
Do you change your seatpost height when the wheels are different diameters? If you do, why do you do that?

Karvalo
Posts: 2636
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

CampagYOLO wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:06 pm
eljamoquio wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:55 pm
CampagYOLO wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:32 am
If your gravel bike is N=1 then 650x47 has roughly the same ride height as 700x28 meaning no adjustment of the seatpost each time you swap wheels.
Uh, you're changing the seatpost height relative to your wheel size? My legs stay the same length regardless of wheel size and thus I keep my seatpost at the same height regardless of tire size. I'd just assumed everyone else did the same thing too.
Thanks for proving my point.

Switching from 700x47 to 700x28 would change the ride height, 650x47 to 700x28 doesn't.
What point? 700x47 to 700x28 does change the ride height and doesn't change the saddle height. Ride height has nothing to do with saddle height unless you're on a penny farthing.

ricerocket
Posts: 583
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:38 am

by ricerocket

Looking into my crystal ball...

At some point in the next 10 years, one of the big 3 will rediscover the virtues of short chainstays and will have enough marketing power to make it happen, and everyone will be scrambling to come up with their own 650b short chainstay bike. It will be billed as the "fun" gravel bike, to bring back some life into your boring gravel rides.

This basically is where MTB is today; gravel with roots closer to roadies, tend to be a little slower.

bikewithnoname
Posts: 1698
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:29 pm
Location: Paris

by bikewithnoname

ricerocket wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:58 pm
Looking into my crystal ball...

At some point in the next 10 years, one of the big 3 will rediscover the virtues of short chainstays and will have enough marketing power to make it happen, and everyone will be scrambling to come up with their own 650b short chainstay bike. It will be billed as the "fun" gravel bike, to bring back some life into your boring gravel rides.

This basically is where MTB is today; gravel with roots closer to roadies, tend to be a little slower.
You're likely right, the diverge will go mullet, 29er front 650b rear in 2025 for "extreme gravel" racing :D And everyone will think it's the best bike on earth
"We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities." Oscar Wilde

warthog101
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

Dunno. I'm on 700x40.
Can't see myself wanting to go wider. I don't have traction or comfort problems on the terrain I am riding.
I don't see wider as being any faster.
Some input here.

https://www.velonews.com/news/gravel/th ... ire-width/

Karvalo
Posts: 2636
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

warthog101 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:40 am
Dunno. I'm on 700x40.
Can't see myself wanting to go wider. I don't have traction or comfort problems on the terrain I am riding.
That's exactly it. Just like there's no single best tyre type or size for MTB because of the hugely different terrains and riding styles involved there's no single right tyre size for gravel either.

700x40 is brilliant for speed and comfort on a lot of the stuff on my doorstep I ride most often. For other places I'll take the bike it'd be grossly inadequate. Gravel's a huge genre of riding and there's no single template of bike that will serve it all.

warthog101
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101


Karvalo wrote:
That's exactly it. Just like there's no single best tyre type or size for MTB because of the hugely different terrains and riding styles involved there's no single right tyre size for gravel either.

700x40 is brilliant for speed and comfort on a lot of the stuff on my doorstep I ride most often. For other places I'll take the bike it'd be grossly inadequate. Gravel's a huge genre of riding and there's no single template of bike that will serve it all.
I am riding gravel roads, so view that as the suggestion for my tyre selection.


I am wondering what terrain is being ridden for 700x40 to be too small?
Sand, mud, snow?
Bike loaded for touring?

Agree people ride different terrain and have different preferences. However if speed is high on the selection criteria then larger tyres don't seem to make alot of sense, at least on gravel roads.

https://youtu.be/ajoMqtscOME

https://youtu.be/zlCXvhhwDCs


Karvalo
Posts: 2636
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

warthog101 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:05 am
I am wondering what terrain is being ridden for 700x40 to be too small?
Sand, mud, snow?
Bike loaded for touring?
Rocks and roots. Places where it's silly not to be riding an mtb :P

warthog101
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

Karvalo wrote:
warthog101 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:05 am
I am wondering what terrain is being ridden for 700x40 to be too small?
Sand, mud, snow?
Bike loaded for touring?
Rocks and roots. Places where it's silly not to be riding an mtb :P
He makes that point in the 2nd video. ;)

Still, if you aren't after speed, and riding in soft stuff, loaded bike packing, then fair enough I guess

Karvalo
Posts: 2636
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

warthog101 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:49 am
Karvalo wrote:
warthog101 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:05 am
I am wondering what terrain is being ridden for 700x40 to be too small?
Sand, mud, snow?
Bike loaded for touring?
Rocks and roots. Places where it's silly not to be riding an mtb :P
He makes that point in the 2nd video. ;)

Still, if you aren't after speed, and riding in soft stuff, loaded bike packing, then fair enough I guess
What point? I can't be bothered to watch quarter of an hour of gcn waffle to find one opinion.

I don't ride big 650b for soft stuff, I use it for hard, bumpy and jagged stuff.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply