Lightweight tubes and tires vs lightweight tubeless tires

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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naavt
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:58 pm

by naavt

Sorry if this has been discussed already but I had no results in my search.

As the titles suggests! I've been on tubeless for 3 years now. Against all odds, schwalbes have been a PITA regarding punctures. Had about 3 sets of Pro Ones and multiple flats on them, some the sealant didn't make any difference whatsoever (tried Schwalbe, Mariposa and I'm now on Orange Seal, the best one to remove once dried).

The thing is... I'm always adding sealant. Initiallly 30ml per tire and adding 20ml. This probably adds to total weight of the tire.

Besides that, im looking for tan side walls for my new tires and have seen that tubeless tan tires are hard to find, so I'm thinking if tire + tube won't be a better lightweight option than Schwalbes Pro Ones TT, that are the only lightweight tubeless that I can find with tan walls.

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MarshMellow
Posts: 112
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by MarshMellow

Road / Gravel tubeless is awful hard to comprehend most the time. The inital concept yielded proven variations w/ a balance of performance - 2Bliss for MX/Enduro, DeanEasy and ProCore for Mountain Bike. Stuffing foam inside of tires, regardless of which cell-type it is made from... is just dumb but keeps sales up of some plastic wheelsets.

Road and Gravel - there's no significant volume of air to overcome sudden pressure loss. Panaracer came out with a lightweight workaround keeping tubes in one piece such a long time ago - Flataway. Have not used it but have found many good experiences c/o others.

There's that one thing which seems to get overlooked quite alot, running a significant amount of talc powder in tires and tubes, be it buytl or latex - unsure about Pirelli or other plastic tubes but the basic fundamental is there -- to allow indepandent dynamics of Tire and Tube when undulating and experiencing hysteresis. Otherwise, the perpendicular line which attracts gravity would be all that much quicker to collapse the air-volume beneath in a rim-strike or if having to conform to a massively off-camber section of road or debris.

If riders need to save .22 watts by running only oil in their headset bearings then, a bit of talc powder is worth the effort. Unless it's tubeless wheels by the dozens on the back of a support vehicle - which it ain't and which it will never be ever in this particular... care for some good tubes and clinchers and avoid the hassle, the mess and an increasing disconnect from riding.
MarshMellow wrote:
tjvirden wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:43 pm
...they're... ...planar voids
Void Fact!

by Weenie


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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 9434
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Never going back to tubes.

If you're having issue with Schwalbes, especially ones from 3 years ago, then that's on you for not switching to something else.

If you are having issues with punctures, do not use Schwalbe Pro One TTs... come on, be sensible. I've been using these tires and I've had a half dozen punctures in as many weeks. The rest of the year on other tires, I've only had 2 punctures. They all sealed of course, with only one getting down to about 25psi, and one other time down to 40psi in a race where I finished on the podium.

Hexsense
Posts: 2560
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

If you stick with tubes:
latex is not the lightest but still the fastest https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... nner-tubes

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 9434
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

And the newer PU tubes are lighter, pack down smaller in saddle bags, nearly as fast as latex and lose less air over time.

rudye9mr
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 12:01 pm

by rudye9mr

One poor exp with schwalbe...never went back...

Good exp with IRC and Hutchinson tubeless.

Still find it a bit of a hassle with punctures...the worms never worked for me....

Went back to normal tires and tubes...

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

rudye9mr wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:24 pm
One poor exp with schwalbe...never went back...

Good exp with IRC and Hutchinson tubeless.

Still find it a bit of a hassle with punctures...the worms never worked for me....

Went back to normal tires and tubes...

DynaPlug works best with road tubeless. If you run high pressures like me, the worms can get pushed back out, resulting in sealant bukkake on a ride or where you store your bike. The only way to get worms to stay reliably at higher pressures is to let the sealant cure for a day at lower pressure.

Stan’s Darts, on the other hand, are useless for smaller road punctures. The rubber plug slides off the plastic tip during insertion.

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Lewn777
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

Tubeless isn't really worth the hassle with road bikes unless you have loads of punctures and find an excellent wheel tire combo that can be pumped up with a hand-pump. If it ain't broke don't try to fix it just because it's a no brainer for MTB doesn't mean it's a great idea for road.

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nickf
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm

by nickf

MTB, gravel 38c or larger, yes tubeless. Higher pressure road tubeless, no thanks.

naavt
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:58 pm

by naavt

I really appreciate all you comments since I'm really evaluating both hypothesis.

For this build I can opt both ways, but I'm seeing that many roadies here aren't that tubeless friendly!

On my other bike I have a new pair os Zipp 303s and those don't accept any other thing than tubeless, albeit they don't accept high pressures as well (I'm riding 58 front and 61 rear, both 26 Pirelli PZero which I had no issues until now).

On the other hand I also like tubeless lower pressures in general. I'm riding 81 front and 74 rear on a 25 / 28 combo on a Deda SL38 wheelset.

My first choice would be the Pirellis since they are performing great until now, but my new built is all black and I want to throw some color and the tires are the perfect bit to to just that.

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Don’t listen to the FUD above about road tubeless not working. It works very well. It saved my state championship. Not everyone rides on pristine roads all the time. And in the off-chance that I do, I have no problem running 95-100psi in my tires. Yes, a little more sealant shoots out, but it still seals. The last time I ran 95psi and had a puncture, the tire only lost single digit psi.

No specific tire/rim combos needed. You just need to avoid a few specific products.

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Hellgate
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:49 pm

by Hellgate

I've really enjoyed Corsa's, and Corsa Speeds with Orange Seal and DynaPlugs as a back up. For ultra endurance events they can be a massive time saver vs faffing with a tube in the event of a puncture.

The only time I flat is when I get lazy and haven't refreshed the sealant. That's totally on me not the kit.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 9434
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Hellgate wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:13 am
I've really enjoyed Corsa's, and Corsa Speeds with Orange Seal and DynaPlugs as a back up. For ultra endurance events they can be a massive time saver vs faffing with a tube in the event of a puncture.

The only time I flat is when I get lazy and haven't refreshed the sealant. That's totally on me not the kit.

But haven’t you heard, road tubeless doesn’t work.

MikeD
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Hellgate wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:13 am
I've really enjoyed Corsa's, and Corsa Speeds with Orange Seal and DynaPlugs as a back up. For ultra endurance events they can be a massive time saver vs faffing with a tube in the event of a puncture.

The only time I flat is when I get lazy and haven't refreshed the sealant. That's totally on me not the kit.

But haven’t you heard, road tubeless doesn’t work.
It works until it doesn't.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 9434
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

MikeD wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:13 am

It works until it doesn't.

Tubes work until they don't. Tubulars work until they don't. Oversimplifications and generalizations work until they don't.

100% of my tubeless punctures this year have sealed.

by Weenie


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