Tarmac SL6 BB Creaking

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Moderator: robbosmans

dreikant
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 9:01 pm

by dreikant

Dear Weenies,
I have a creaky bottom bracket in my Tarmac SL6. So far, I have tried several products to eliminate the creaking. Unfortunately, the creaking always came back sooner or later. These are the products that I used so far. For every installation I used new SKF bearings.

- Anti-Seize
- Wako's grease
- Loctite 641 (with and without Activator)
- Loctite 648 (with and without Activator)

Now, after having spent a lot of time and money without success, I am looking for a solution that will work with my S-Works power cranks. I found these bottom brackets. However, I am not sure if they are actually compatible with the power cranks. They might be too wide...

https://www.bbinfinite.com/products/bb3 ... 4403002702
https://www.c-bear.com/en/products/bott ... lized-fact

Right now, I am bit helpless and don't know what to do. So, I would be really thankfull if the Tarmac SL6 owner's can share their experience and knowledge to this problem.

User avatar
Kayba
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: W-City

by Kayba

I had the same issue when I bought my SL6 in 2018. After a few weeks of testing I found a set-up that worked for me, I haven't had a single creak since then.

- I ditched the Specialized conical alignment washers, I thought they were flimsy
- As a replacement I took two spacers from a SRAM BB30 Bottom Bracket
- I used Loctite 641 (no activator) on the BB shells and installed the bearings
- I put Loctite 641 on the inner race of the bearings AND on the spindle
- I reassembled the crank and gave the Loctite the time (24 hours) to dry

I also tried to only put glue on the BB shells, but still had some creaks. I am positive the creaks were caused by tiny movements of the spindle in the bearings. That's why I decided to put glue on the spindle and on the inner race of the bearings. I haven't tried to disassemble the crank yet (still running on the original ceramic speed bearings), but I am confident disassembly won't be a problem since the Loctite 641 is medium strength and was conceived for disassembly purposes.

Good luck!

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Visus
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:43 pm

by Visus

Kayba wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:36 pm
I put Loctite 641 on the inner race of the bearings AND on the spindle
really? please don't do that

dreikant
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 9:01 pm

by dreikant

Thanky you Kayba for the input. The axle can creek if it is not straight. But I don't want to glue it to the inner bearing race :)

I attached two images of my axle. You can see where the axle had contact with the bearing. But that shouldn't be a problem right? It is only the surface. Definitely no structural damage. Can't even feel a difference when I touch it with my thumb.

I also attached images of the bottom bracket shell in case anyone notices something unusual.
Attachments
IMG_4070.jpeg
IMG_4239.jpeg
IMG_4513.jpeg
IMG_4514.jpeg
IMG_4516.jpeg
IMG_4517.jpeg
IMG_4518.jpeg

User avatar
Alexbn921
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 pm

by Alexbn921

I had the same problem and used a BBinfinite to fix it. Has been great for the last 3500 miles.
Ride fast Take chances

dreikant
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 9:01 pm

by dreikant

Did you use retaining compound when you installed the bbinfinite? Is it the bbinfinite for 30mm axles?

User avatar
Kayba
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: W-City

by Kayba

dreikant wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:57 pm
Thanky you Kayba for the input. The axle can creek if it is not straight. But I don't want to glue it to the inner bearing race :)
Your call of course but a straight axle can also cause creaks. A metal on metal interface (axle-inner race) is a potential source of creaking (especially if one of the two is alloy) First, I tried grease to eliminate the noises but that didn't work. I am not too worried about the glue, I am sure I will be able to disassemble the crank when I will have to replace the bearings.

User avatar
Alexbn921
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 pm

by Alexbn921

dreikant wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:33 pm
Did you use retaining compound when you installed the bbinfinite? Is it the bbinfinite for 30mm axles?
It was for DUB, so yes it used 30mm bearings. All install parts and compound where included. I installed it on a S-works roubaix. It had BB30 but was native OSBB with cups glued in. They where not square so I cut them out. Give them a call and they should be able to get you sorted.
Ride fast Take chances

Frank69
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:47 am

by Frank69

@dreikant
I'm building my new S Works SL6 in the moment.
Because I've read a lot about the problems with bottom bracket cracking and because I found the CeramicSpeed ball bearings pretty loose in the frame (when removing the crank the non drive side bearing came out two millimeters and could be pushed back by hand) I decided to remove the bearings and use the C-bear PF 42-30 bottom bracket that was told me to eliminate any cracking noises. As you I'll use the Specialized Power crank so we have the same setup.
This is my experience with installing this stup:
1) The cups of the BB were extremely hard to press in... I doubt that I will ever get them out😱
2) Once pressed in the little lips on the outside that act as a stop of the cups make it impossible to use the Power Crank without a washer on the drive side. I've added a 1 mm aluminum washer that came with a Sram bb30 preload assembly.
3) Now for the even more tricky part. For the non drive side you can't use the Specialized conical spacers... They are too wide. You also can't use the Sram preload assembly. Too wide and the preload ring rubs on the lip of the non drive side bb cup. The solution was to use the two 2 mm aluminum spacers and the wave washer wich came with the C-Bear bb.
4) So in the end I have a 1 mm spacer on the drive side (to compensate the lip of the bb cup) and two 2 mm spacers + the wave washer on the non drive side. That assembly fits.
5) Not really happy with the result: The axle doesn't spin as free as you can see in the C-Bear videos. It does do 2 1/2 revolutions though. I'm pretty sure this is because of an angular misalignment of the bottom bracket shell and bonded in aluminum cups. Hambini has a lot of videos about this topic but not directly about Specialized frames.
Second: Because of the 1 mm spacer on the drive side (that you have to use to compensate the lip of the bb cup) the chainset is 1 mm more out compared to the original setup. No Idea if that will be a problem with shifting but it bothers me.
5) Conclusion: If the original (CeramicSpeed) setup is making cracking noises that can't be eliminated and you absolutely want to use the Power Crank the C-Bear PF 42 30 can be a solution but with some compromises.
The BBinfinite bottom bracket that does the same thing seems to solve the problem with the cup lip on the drive side so it could be the perfect solution but I really doubt it will be fun to press it in. I had really problems pressing the two separate C-Bear cups in and if you have only the slightest misalignment with the bb shell than you'll be stuck in the middle as the BBinfiniteis a one piece unit...
May be you already solved the problem... If yes, please let me know your solution.
Frank

dreikant
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 9:01 pm

by dreikant

My stock bearings were also pretty loose in the frame. I ended up buying the bbinfinite module because it is a one piece design. So, at least the bearings are perfectly aligned. After over 10.000 km, I am very very happy with it. No more creaking and the crank spins perfectly. It doesn't want to stop when you spin it. Bearings also seem to last much longer than in the stock setup. I still run the Abec-7 bearings that came with the bbinfinite module.

The installation went very smoothly as well. Pressing the module into the frame was no problem at all. Not much force needed.

The bb module has a lip on one side. This lip normally belongs on the non-drive side. I wanted a clean look and therefore decided to install the bb module from the other side so that the lip is on the drive-side. Therefore, I need a paper thin shim/ spacer on the drive side.

On the non-drive side, the stock Specialized conical spacer can not be used. I use a spacer and a wave washer. I can check the spacer width, if you want to know. This setup is also much better than the stock conical spacer because nothing can come loose over time. The stock spacer always loosens over time. With this setup my S-Works crank fits perfectly and when I went for the first ride it felt much stiffer in the bb area than stock.

There are only very minor drawbacks of this solution:
Maybe it is a bit heavier than stock. This doesn't matter to me because it just feels better now when I put some power into it. Then, you need to keep in mind that the bb module uses bearings that do not have a standard size. So, once they are worn you need to buy them from bbinfinite. Another thing is that a special tool is needed if one wants to remove the bb module from the frame. This tool can be bought or rented from bbinfinite. For me, this is also not a problem because I do not plan to remove it as long as it does its job.

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1688
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

I use Campagnolo, I foud the Ultra Torque cups were VERY and I mean VERY tight to press in, they have not made any noise at all.. same with my Venge.. my SL5 is a different story.. same Campy cups, but I still get the occasional ticky flex noise coming over the top of the pedal stroke.. the first set I installed went over a year with no noise, the second set only a few months.. I use loctite primer and 641 gap filler... When I ran Dura Ace on my SL5, the only way tio shut up the creaks was to go with one of the BBs that thread together (I went with a Ceramic speed) this shut it up totally.. Ihave the BBInfinite system in mt Cannondale Super Six, it did shut up the creaks, but watch if you do this system that if you want to swap BB systems down the road, you need their tools to remove it, and even with those Ive heard it can be a real PITA to get it out...

RichTheRoadie
Tinker, Taylor, Tart
Posts: 2229
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:00 pm
Location: Sydney, Aus.

by RichTheRoadie

If anyone with an SL6 wants the C-Bear BB30 BB for 30mm axle cranks (eeWings, Easton, Rotor etc.) I have a brand new one spare in their limited edition green colour. It's this BB, but in this colour.

Happy to sell at a discount, but it'll be coming from Sydney, Aus., so there might be a shipping cost (shouldn't be too high) and it could take a couple of weeks depending where you are.

plainey
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 7:41 am

by plainey

Frank69 wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 11:27 am
@dreikant
I'm building my new S Works SL6 in the moment.
Because I've read a lot about the problems with bottom bracket cracking and because I found the CeramicSpeed ball bearings pretty loose in the frame (when removing the crank the non drive side bearing came out two millimeters and could be pushed back by hand) I decided to remove the bearings and use the C-bear PF 42-30 bottom bracket that was told me to eliminate any cracking noises. As you I'll use the Specialized Power crank so we have the same setup.
This is my experience with installing this stup:
1) The cups of the BB were extremely hard to press in... I doubt that I will ever get them out😱
2) Once pressed in the little lips on the outside that act as a stop of the cups make it impossible to use the Power Crank without a washer on the drive side. I've added a 1 mm aluminum washer that came with a Sram bb30 preload assembly.
3) Now for the even more tricky part. For the non drive side you can't use the Specialized conical spacers... They are too wide. You also can't use the Sram preload assembly. Too wide and the preload ring rubs on the lip of the non drive side bb cup. The solution was to use the two 2 mm aluminum spacers and the wave washer wich came with the C-Bear bb.
4) So in the end I have a 1 mm spacer on the drive side (to compensate the lip of the bb cup) and two 2 mm spacers + the wave washer on the non drive side. That assembly fits.
5) Not really happy with the result: The axle doesn't spin as free as you can see in the C-Bear videos. It does do 2 1/2 revolutions though. I'm pretty sure this is because of an angular misalignment of the bottom bracket shell and bonded in aluminum cups. Hambini has a lot of videos about this topic but not directly about Specialized frames.
Second: Because of the 1 mm spacer on the drive side (that you have to use to compensate the lip of the bb cup) the chainset is 1 mm more out compared to the original setup. No Idea if that will be a problem with shifting but it bothers me.
5) Conclusion: If the original (CeramicSpeed) setup is making cracking noises that can't be eliminated and you absolutely want to use the Power Crank the C-Bear PF 42 30 can be a solution but with some compromises.
The BBinfinite bottom bracket that does the same thing seems to solve the problem with the cup lip on the drive side so it could be the perfect solution but I really doubt it will be fun to press it in. I had really problems pressing the two separate C-Bear cups in and if you have only the slightest misalignment with the bb shell than you'll be stuck in the middle as the BBinfiniteis a one piece unit...
May be you already solved the problem... If yes, please let me know your solution.
Frank
I just bought a PF42-30AC yesterday and wish I would have come across your post earlier...
I'm wondering how your setup's been thus far, and if you've found any improvements to the SRAM 1mm spacer drive side + 2x 2mm and wave washer non-drive side that you originally used.

I know it's probably a pretty rare setup, but does anyone else have this setup (C-Bear PF42-30 + Specialized Fact Crankset) and could share any pointers?

alexmcm09
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:02 am

by alexmcm09

dreikant wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:03 pm
Dear Weenies,
I have a creaky bottom bracket in my Tarmac SL6. So far, I have tried several products to eliminate the creaking. Unfortunately, the creaking always came back sooner or later. These are the products that I used so far. For every installation I used new SKF bearings.

- Anti-Seize
- Wako's grease
- Loctite 641 (with and without Activator)
- Loctite 648 (with and without Activator)

Now, after having spent a lot of time and money without success, I am looking for a solution that will work with my S-Works power cranks. I found these bottom brackets. However, I am not sure if they are actually compatible with the power cranks. They might be too wide...

https://www.bbinfinite.com/products/bb3 ... 4403002702
https://www.c-bear.com/en/products/bott ... lized-fact

Right now, I am bit helpless and don't know what to do. So, I would be really thankfull if the Tarmac SL6 owner's can share their experience and knowledge to this problem.
I had success with using Loctite 609 on the bearing outer race to take up any slop between the BB shell and the bearings. Then liberal amounts of grease on all the metal interfaces and a touch of Loctite threadlocker on the self extracting bolt. Torque it up to spec (40nm if I'm not mistaken) and it should be good to go. I also ditched the Specialized pre loader and used a Cane Creek one which is much, much better.

dreikant
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 9:01 pm

by dreikant

alexmcm09 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:57 am
I had success with using Loctite 609 on the bearing outer race to take up any slop between the BB shell and the bearings. Then liberal amounts of grease on all the metal interfaces and a touch of Loctite threadlocker on the self extracting bolt. Torque it up to spec (40nm if I'm not mistaken) and it should be good to go. I also ditched the Specialized pre loader and used a Cane Creek one which is much, much better.
I also ditched the Specialized pre loader. It is not good. I found a better solution with spacers and a wave wahser. Could you say which Cane Creek preloader you are using and if it works with the Specialized S-works crank.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply