Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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MoPho
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Location: NorCal

by MoPho

openwheelracing wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:47 pm


Actually, rim brake advantages are obvious. Lower weight and lower cost being the most valuable.

Also, GCN is sponsored by those trying to maximize profit with disc brake. Same situation at Jumbo, Bora and everyone else held hostage by sponsors. Look past the marketing you will see those rim calipers.

I am not even a rim brake guy, I like both.

So what you're saying is don't buy stuff GCN shills such as Pinarello, Orbea, Canyon, etc., or anything a pro team uses because they are out to make money... Or does this marketing you speak of only apply to disc brakes? :noidea:

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openwheelracing
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Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:41 am

by openwheelracing

MoPho wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:57 pm
openwheelracing wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:47 pm


Actually, rim brake advantages are obvious. Lower weight and lower cost being the most valuable.

Also, GCN is sponsored by those trying to maximize profit with disc brake. Same situation at Jumbo, Bora and everyone else held hostage by sponsors. Look past the marketing you will see those rim calipers.

I am not even a rim brake guy, I like both.

So what you're saying is don't buy stuff GCN shills such as Pinarello, Orbea, Canyon, etc., or anything a pro team uses because they are out to make money... Or does this marketing you speak of only apply to disc brakes? :noidea:
World is not black and white my friend. Enjoy some colors. All I said is there is a layer of marketing involved. There is nothing wrong with making money. Everyone should make money and lots of it. Me too I wish I make even more than I already do.

However, when I am a consumer buying bikes, I put on a different hat. That's all I am saying.

In addition, cycling industry is cyclical, literally. What's in today will be outdated tomorrow and vice versa. Trust me soon enough rim brake will come back. Look at the Aethos and those old school boring design.

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

openwheelracing wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:38 pm
Trust me soon enough rim brake will come back.

Haha. Hahahaha. Ahhahahahaha.

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AGGAGAGAGGAHAHAHAHaHAHfaAFhFAHaghjadfghgdjgsdjaghkjsdhladshjk

tjvirden
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Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm

by tjvirden

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:50 pm
openwheelracing wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:38 pm
Trust me soon enough rim brake will come back.

Haha. Hahahaha. Ahhahahahaha.

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAahahahaHHAhaHahHAhahAHahAHAHHAHahAHAHHAHaHAHhAHAHHAHAHAHAHahhahahaHAHAHAHHAHahAHHAHaHAHAHHAHAHahAHAHHAHAHAHahAHhahahahhahaHAHHAHAHAHHAHaHAHHAHahHAhahHAHahhAHhAHahHAHhhahhahahaHAhAHHHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAhA

AHAHAHHAHAHAHahHhahahHAhahhaAHHAHAHHAhahaHAHhahaHAHhAHhhahahahhahahahAHAHAHAHHaHAHhaHahHAHAHHAHAhHAHAHahHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA

AGGAGAGAGGAHAHAHAHaHAHfaAFhFAHaghjadfghgdjgsdjaghkjsdhladshjk
Lol

Much as I love riding my rim brake bike, I won't be holding my breath for a revival.....

iggg
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by iggg

openwheelracing wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:47 pm
...GCN is sponsored by those trying to maximize profit ...
This describes every company/business in the world - they are all trying to maximize profit. Those who are not successful at it go out of business eventually.

There is nothing wrong with rim brakes per se, it's just the majority of cyclists stopped buying them and moved to disk brakes. Same with tubulars. Same with lots of other products that became niche offerings. And yes, eventually companies move R&D and marketing funds to where customers are.

MoPho
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Location: NorCal

by MoPho

openwheelracing wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:38 pm
World is not black and white my friend. Enjoy some colors. All I said is there is a layer of marketing involved. There is nothing wrong with making money. Everyone should make money and lots of it. Me too I wish I make even more than I already do.
But it is kind of black and white, if you are going to dismiss the word of media like GCN as biased by marketing than you have to apply it to everything they say. It is not just disc brakes they are being paid to promote*
You can't be selectively against marketing just because it is something you don't want. I keep seeing this over and over in these R v. D discussions, people claiming that disc is marketing BS and people who buy them are "suckers" or "sheep" and then they are over in another thread measurebating over the manufacturer claimed watts savings of the oversized pullies they just bought or something :lol:



*and who knows if they are even being paid to promote disc brakes specifically

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cveks
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by cveks

mgrl wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:21 pm
cveks wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:18 pm
Ollie and GCN have the answer

rim brake bikes offer huge advantage over disc brakes bikes
Please never post again given that video specifically says that you CANNOT draw the conclusion you're claiming.
I will. Because wind tunnel testing by GCN destroyed all your dreams, disc brake lovers :)

And proved what we all knew. Rim brake si better than disc brake in road cycling.

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cveks
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by cveks

openwheelracing wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:47 pm
mgrl wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:21 pm
cveks wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:18 pm
Ollie and GCN have the answer

rim brake bikes offer huge advantage over disc brakes bikes
Please never post again given that video specifically says that you CANNOT draw the conclusion you're claiming.
Actually, rim brake advantages are obvious. Lower weight and lower cost being the most valuable.

Also, GCN is sponsored by those trying to maximize profit with disc brake. Same situation at Jumbo, Bora and everyone else held hostage by sponsors. Look past the marketing you will see those rim calipers.

I am not even a rim brake guy, I like both.
Yes . Greed of main bike brands & Shimano is killing sport ... But we have small chinese brands which will always be on side of truth and common people who dont have 10.000 euros or more to give for a weekend bike tool.

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cveks
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by cveks

openwheelracing wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:38 pm
MoPho wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:57 pm
openwheelracing wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:47 pm


Actually, rim brake advantages are obvious. Lower weight and lower cost being the most valuable.

Also, GCN is sponsored by those trying to maximize profit with disc brake. Same situation at Jumbo, Bora and everyone else held hostage by sponsors. Look past the marketing you will see those rim calipers.

I am not even a rim brake guy, I like both.

So what you're saying is don't buy stuff GCN shills such as Pinarello, Orbea, Canyon, etc., or anything a pro team uses because they are out to make money... Or does this marketing you speak of only apply to disc brakes? :noidea:
World is not black and white my friend. Enjoy some colors. All I said is there is a layer of marketing involved. There is nothing wrong with making money. Everyone should make money and lots of it. Me too I wish I make even more than I already do.

However, when I am a consumer buying bikes, I put on a different hat. That's all I am saying.

In addition, cycling industry is cyclical, literally. What's in today will be outdated tomorrow and vice versa. Trust me soon enough rim brake will come back. Look at the Aethos and those old school boring design.
You are completely right. I remember past when all bikes used like 2 bottom bracket standards . BSA or ITA which were same actually. After that we had BB30 which was far superior than dozen more like PF30, BB86, BB386 all superior and offering better power transfer and lower bike weight than actual BSA .

After some time I just heard Specialized Trek and other brands are gone back to BSA? Reason - make more profit.

They cant make every frameset equal with pressfit bottom brackets and to lower production costs they went back to BSA.

Some day same will be with disc brakes.... People will realize that they are not needed in road cycling because rim brakes are superior.

tjvirden
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by tjvirden

Recently, I came across a wonderful expression in British English: "nutty as a fruitcake".

openwheelracing
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by openwheelracing

iggg wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:46 pm
openwheelracing wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:47 pm
...GCN is sponsored by those trying to maximize profit ...
This describes every company/business in the world - they are all trying to maximize profit. Those who are not successful at it go out of business eventually.

There is nothing wrong with rim brakes per se, it's just the majority of cyclists stopped buying them and moved to disk brakes. Same with tubulars. Same with lots of other products that became niche offerings. And yes, eventually companies move R&D and marketing funds to where customers are.
Yeah agreed on the maximization of margins. Thank you for proving my point.

Of course those riding rim started buying disc brake bikes. Human nature. We all like new toys. Plenty of excellent rim brake bikes in used market while big brands pushing disc only. You claim chicken I claim the egg. It's just business and marketing as I mentioned.

Mark my words, those brands who ditched rim completely will bring high end rim brake back. Same reason Factor in Peloton is offering riders rim brake options now. Froomey did well.

tjvirden
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm

by tjvirden

openwheelracing wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:07 am
........
.......
Mark my words, those brands who ditched rim completely will bring high end rim brake back. Same reason Factor in Peloton is offering riders rim brake options now. Froomey did well.
Oh, I do so hope you're correct; but I really don't see it :(

One thing I like so much is the near zero-faff wheel removal/replacement - discs with through-axles can't match that. However, it's such a small part of what I really want - which includes rims that are both light with excellent 'aero', and with no compromise on braking - that I can only see this ending one way.

From a design and manufacturing perspective, I don't see how a rim, for use with a rim brake, can offer those three things together: low weight, low drag and excellent braking wet or dry. What about the aero drag of the disc, I hear? Well, a rim caliper* with exposed cabling will roughly balance that........

*Edit: a standard, front-mounted caliper of course

Alexandrumarian
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by Alexandrumarian

I think a good carbon rim / pad combo brakes well enough in the wet already, the bigger problem is tire grip. The brake track could still see improvements from using some newer and better ceramic or similar coatings.
Another major improvement that could be done to a rim would be an insulating layer to isolate the tube/tubular. Something light, thin and very effective all at the same time is probably sci-fi but anyway, we could dream....

usr
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by usr

tjvirden wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:17 pm
Much as I love riding my rim brake bike, I won't be holding my breath for a revival.....
Fully agree. I'd rather put my money on a wooden rim revival it something like that. (enabled by the brake type I'm not happy about at all, hey, maybe I'm up to something 😆)

Even Armstrong failed to revive the downtube shifter, despite "winning the tour in it".

by Weenie


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Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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iggg
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by iggg

openwheelracing wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:07 am
Of course those riding rim started buying disc brake bikes. Human nature. We all like new toys. Plenty of excellent rim brake bikes in used market while big brands pushing disc only. You claim chicken I claim the egg. It's just business and marketing as I mentioned.
Well, not quite chicken and egg. Manufacturers would love to make money by selling bikes with rim brakes too - but guess what, rim brakes do not sell
well because cyclists prefer disk brakes. It has been a trend for many years - proportion of disk to rim brake sales has been going up for what...10+ years? So, at some point every rational company looked at the numbers and asked a question - why do we even bother with rim brakes if sales predominantly go to disk brakes anyway? Why would you spend half of your R&D budget on something that makes 10% or your sales? Makes no sense, right?

And you can certainly say "cyclists prefer disk brakes because of marketting!". Well, cyclists apparently prefered disk brakes even when most of marketing budgets were spent on rim brakes - which was the case 5-7 years ago. Also, what's the meaning of that anyway? I personally bought 4 bikes during last 5 years, and all of them were with disk brakes. Which marketing message, in your opinion, influenced me to buy disk brakes?

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