2022 New Frame Rumours

[wheelsONfire]

@Flatlandrider,
I personally think a light bike rides differently. Also doubt that an aero frameset itself does much. Many bikes today seems assembled with short stems and high row of spacers, bars positioned badly to have good position on the hoods.

I do see that guys who go full in, have that fit and do everything for aero, that's another case really.
But so few are like this!

@maquisard, perhaps Caledonia is like that, i don't know.
Only thing i say is that endurance bike mostly are designed for another type of experience than a race bike.
I think people are "turned on" by that notion - race bike (and it comes fully designed for a few peoples fit. Most don't have this fit)
Imagine you actually got a bike fitting you like a glove and have been designed so you can have that perfect balance and it do feel like a race bike.
If people really had an opportunity to test ride such a bike, i believe they would be amazed.

A buddy of mine told me he had a set of super light wheels, so light his bike almost went up on the rear wheel. He was hellbent it was due to his super light wheelset.
But how he fitted himself to all his bikes was terrible. Because the bikes he insisted/ persisted to buy was always setup with massive rows of spacer and super short cockpit. No wonder the bike rode nervous and (IMO, crappy). Instead of buying 4-5 bikes like this, he could have asked for one custom bike which handled great, designed for his fit and with a race feel as preference. Instead he wasted lots of money on expensive components and as mentioned, having several bikes.
Inspite of this garage of bikes, none of them really was that one super bike. Just an exercise in expenses.

[pmprego]

+1 to wheelsONfire

[TobinHatesYou]

There are a few "relaxed race" type bikes like the Caledonia.

Here are some roughly "56cm" bikes.
Cervelo S-Series/R-Series: 580mm stack, 387mm reach
Colnago C64 Sloping: 583mm stack, 385mm reach
Pinarello Prince: 586mm stack, 388mm reach
Time Alpe d'Huez: 581mm stack, 392mm reach
Open Min.D: 585mm stack, 385mm reach
Parlee Altum: 587mm stack, 381mm reach

et cetera

A traditional 56cm race frame typically has 560-565mm stack and 388-393mm reach...or thereabouts.

[jlok]

Venge was a more complex mould and layup, therefore higher cost. They sell all of what they produce, they probably won't bring back an aero road frame until they need to drive sales - and then I'm not sure it'll exactly be a priority. It's a rapidly diminishing sector of the market.

How can it be, according to Spesh aero is all, so they should eat their BS claims. Hypoctites is what they are....

They gave the people what the wanted. In 98% of cases a Customer will ever face, aero is King.

Most people don't know much when it comes to bikes (playing nice here) and trust blindly what they're told.
If aero is King and that is what Spesh try to tell all and everybody, they should keep to that market.
In cycling King is what the industry tells you, sadly they have got away with that.

There's a bike missing, it's a bike that has a more friendly geometry but rides more like a race bike.
But few people are so unaware of what this would be, so there is no-one asking for this.
Which again tells, most don't know more than what they're told/ informed of.

Agree 3000. wOf has got it

[TobinHatesYou]

Ultimately I don't see too much of a point. Some of the Italian brands already seem to be offering relaxed fit race bikes (hey, they know their target market after all.) Most brands specify that 4cm in spacers is safe. You can also just flip your stem. Meanwhile Trek dropped the H1/H2 dichotomy, again because angled stems exist.

[kar]

I wonder from where did this madness to follow science come to road cycling at non-pro level? I follow science to the extent where it makes sense to my riding. Beyond that I couldn't care less.

I bet 90% of the people 90% time do not follow science in their lives. They dont follow science in their diet. They dont follow science in Hygiene. But when it comes to roadbike shopping: SCIENCE

There is a new research, came in just few weeks ago, that tells what is the best time to drink coffee! Will you listen to this science? I will not. I will drink coffee when I want.

And then we have doctors smoking and binge drinking not following their own science, environmental scientists hogging on meat. The list goes on and on for everything. And we never buy the most scientifically efficient things. But when it comes to road cycling: SCIENCE. duh! AERO. duh! My god, this is so ridiculous.

It does not mean I am saying we should run knobbies on our super roadbikes. Science should be followed. But for non-pro, amateur or recreational riders who are not aero in total system (rider & bike, WheelsOnFire listed everything), may be common-sense should also be used together with science.

Also I am not saying folks should not buy the most aero bike or whatever. Just that it will be better for them if they know what they want.

[TobinHatesYou]

Common sense is a non-racer buying an endurance bike or a quiver killer. It arguably isn’t buying a “relaxed fit race bike” that, while more appropriate for a lack of back/core strength and hip flexibility, won’t most likely will never see the start of a race.

[kar]

Exactly. Completely agree with you.
On the other hand,
At club level TT races or even in some Ironman events, some riders just put aero bars on their roadbike as it may not make sense to buy TT bike if they are not very serious or cannot afford.

[mgrl]

There is a new research, came in just few weeks ago, that tells what is the best time to drink coffee! Will you listen to this science? I will not. I will drink coffee when I want.

It's a bit different (ignoring that most research like that that gets in the papers is just clickbait nonsense) because changing your lifestyle, especially your diet, is a lot more involved and has less easy to measure benefit than buying a set of good deep section wheels, for example.

[pmprego]

I like where this is going. This has the potential to replace the new dura ace thread.

[kar]

Yeah. I am not questioning the aero benefits. It is definitely there.

Gain, Benefit and improvements, these three terms are very effectively used.

I did 100km ride yesterday and I just left home, totally enjoyed the ride and came back. I do it twice or thrice a week (new bike ).

It was quite windy, but still enjoyed a lot (tailwinds on the way back ) and did not think too much on my non aero bike.

May be its just me, I do not see riding bike as a problem. To me it is a solution to other life problems (not big problems though). So I do not try to maximize gain or benefit in already a nice solution.

Please continue the orginal topic and ignore my posts. I did not mean to deraill it. May be I will stay out

[spartan]

a lot of nonsense propagated by the custom frames zealots. the incovenient facts a typical road geometry used by the majority of bike brands will work for 90% of the buyers. it is 2021 NOT 1995. you can use positive rise stem and a multiture of bars with 70/75/80/93(trek)/100mm of reach. the positive rise stem is not aesthetically pleasing but it will get you to the stack you want. btw high stack does not always aleviate back pain. sometimes you need to lower the stem.

[wheelsONfire]

Ultimately I don't see too much of a point. Some of the Italian brands already seem to be offering relaxed fit race bikes (hey, they know their target market after all.) Most brands specify that 4cm in spacers is safe. You can also just flip your stem. Meanwhile Trek dropped the H1/H2 dichotomy, again because angled stems exist.

Trek stopped with different geometries because it was expensive. But it sounds good to say it's not needed.
But sure, it's up to each to believe what they wish to believe.
BTW, what Italian brands are those?
You ask for example Legend (bikes) how many hundred bikes they built for team riders when it was OK.

[wheelsONfire]

a lot of nonsense propagated by the custom frames zealots. the incovenient facts a typical road geometry used by the majority of bike brands will work for 90% of the buyers. it is 2021 NOT 1995. you can use positive rise stem and a multiture of bars with 70/75/80/93(trek)/100mm of reach. the positive rise stem is not aesthetically pleasing but it will get you to the stack you want. btw high stack does not always aleviate back pain. sometimes you need to lower the stem.

Hehe, yeah, that's why you see so many setups that's far from optimal. Just because you can fit yourself to a bike doesn't translate to optimized.

[spartan]

true story. a couple years ago, i met a guy at a lbs . he was getting a new frame built up with the latest dura-ace. it was a 'custom' serotta ti. when i made a remark about the spacer stack on his 'custom' geo. his response "i have a back issue and prefer the higher bar position". LOL