"They're not making their bikes any faster" - an outsider's perspective on weight weenies

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Moderator: robbosmans

User avatar
HammerTime2
Posts: 5661
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed

by HammerTime2

spartacus wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:29 pm
She does have a remarkable ability to be happy with what she has, versus chasing the next greatest thing.
I guess that's why she stays with you. :beerchug:

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



User avatar
Cheers!
Posts: 1477
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:29 am
Location: Mountain View, California
Contact:

by Cheers!

Lucendi wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:02 pm
Women tend to care more about people and less about things while men tend to be the opposite.

I fully agree with her, but as I am a man who care more about inanimate objects. Looking through the build threads on this forum is just one impressive bike after the next, I love how ingenous solutions people come up with! :)
Really? Because my wife has a closet full of designer handbags from LV, prada, and whatever ones plus 3 pairs of red sole shoes that all look the same.

Nickldn
Posts: 915
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

CyclingGiraffe wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:59 am
Nickldn wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:16 pm

Well my 2019 road bike is objectively better than my 2009 bike in every way:

2019 - 2009
Aero frame carbon - less aero frame carbon
Internal cable routing - external cables
PF ceramic BB - English thread DA steel BB
Wide and deep carbon wheels - shallow aluminium DA 7900 wheels
25mm tubs - 22mm tubs
11s Red etap electronic - 10s DA7900 mechanical
Seat with hole - solid seat
Aero bars - round shape bars
Aero carbon stem - aluminium stem
Gel bar tape - cork bar tape
Carbon 'blade' pedals - carbon 'spring' pedals
Ultra stiff frame - wobble wobble frame
Comfort (relatively) - bump crunch (pain)
Cross wind issues - cross wind issues
Aero lights - awful lights
Garmin - .......

I am measurably faster on my 2019 bike in every way, it is also far more comfortable (despite it being a Propel with ultra stiff ISP). I enjoyed riding my 2009 bike much more........go figure.
Tell me more about this "wobble wobble . . . bump crunch (pain)" frame; I'm intrigued!
Well now that your ask.......

It was a Sigma tri bike carbon frame with Dedacciai carbon forks. Beautiful paint scheme.

The frame was very flexy and around the BB during hard efforts (the first thing I noticed when I switched to a Propel Advanced SL was just how stiff the BB area is, like night and day).

Yet the Dedacciai fork was rock hard and the 22mm tubs didn't help, any bumps would result in a lot of discomfort. On a smooth twisty road it was heaven, stable and predicable, but also responsive! The Propel is a lot more capable in general and I can ride it all day, but it's very very stiff and more twitchy, needs careful attention especially on descents, but also highly satisfying.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Yoeleo H10 bars 7.5kg

User avatar
Sanjuro
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:31 am
Location: Mullberry fields

by Sanjuro

I'd maybe agree with her if she said Ultegra and included carbon wheels, but 105 is a boat anchor and Ultegra just performs and feels so much better, as do a pair of ~45 deep wheels. If she had upgraded to that point and said that, then sure, I'd agree anything beyond there is marginal gains in terms of seconds on the road, but performance, feel and snappiness on a climb also count for something. I think she is either selling herself a little short on that opinion or just looking to be provocative. It's true the strongest rider on the road doesn't need anything more than what she describes, but there's something to be said about feel and performance to a level a little higher than that. And then of course, as others have said, going beyond that point is as much a hobby and a love of bikes as anything else.

MikeD
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

Sanjuro wrote:I'd maybe agree with her if she said Ultegra and included carbon wheels, but 105 is a boat anchor and Ultegra just performs and feels so much better, as do a pair of ~45 deep wheels. If she had upgraded to that point and said that, then sure, I'd agree anything beyond there is marginal gains in terms of seconds on the road, but performance, feel and snappiness on a climb also count for something. I think she is either selling herself a little short on that opinion or just looking to be provocative. It's true the strongest rider on the road doesn't need anything more than what she describes, but there's something to be said about feel and performance to a level a little higher than that. And then of course, as others have said, going beyond that point is as much a hobby and a love of bikes as anything else.
https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/he ... gra-201326 200g difference, little difference performance/shifting. Major price difference.

A set of quality cables like Jagwire Elite Road just makes it better too.
Last edited by MikeD on Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

spartacus
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

by spartacus

There's no practical difference in shifting performance between 11 speed 105 and any shimano group IMHO/IME

User avatar
Sanjuro
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:31 am
Location: Mullberry fields

by Sanjuro

MikeD wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:27 pm
Sanjuro wrote:I'd maybe agree with her if she said Ultegra and included carbon wheels, but 105 is a boat anchor and Ultegra just performs and feels so much better, as do a pair of ~45 deep wheels. If she had upgraded to that point and said that, then sure, I'd agree anything beyond there is marginal gains in terms of seconds on the road, but performance, feel and snappiness on a climb also count for something. I think she is either selling herself a little short on that opinion or just looking to be provocative. It's true the strongest rider on the road doesn't need anything more than what she describes, but there's something to be said about feel and performance to a level a little higher than that. And then of course, as others have said, going beyond that point is as much a hobby and a love of bikes as anything else.
https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/he ... gra-201326 200g difference, little difference performance/shifting. Major price difference.

A set of quality cables like Jagwire Elite Road just makes it better too.
I disagree. I have 105 on my Zwift training bike. It works. I wouldn't race on it or ride for training pleasure outside, but a large part of it may be I place a priority on having a certain level of feel to the components, so it is largely subjective. Still, I stand by what I said though.

Nickldn
Posts: 915
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

Sanjuro wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:40 pm
MikeD wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:27 pm
Sanjuro wrote:I'd maybe agree with her if she said Ultegra and included carbon wheels, but 105 is a boat anchor and Ultegra just performs and feels so much better, as do a pair of ~45 deep wheels. If she had upgraded to that point and said that, then sure, I'd agree anything beyond there is marginal gains in terms of seconds on the road, but performance, feel and snappiness on a climb also count for something. I think she is either selling herself a little short on that opinion or just looking to be provocative. It's true the strongest rider on the road doesn't need anything more than what she describes, but there's something to be said about feel and performance to a level a little higher than that. And then of course, as others have said, going beyond that point is as much a hobby and a love of bikes as anything else.
https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/he ... gra-201326 200g difference, little difference performance/shifting. Major price difference.

A set of quality cables like Jagwire Elite Road just makes it better too.
I disagree. I have 105 on my Zwift training bike. It works. I wouldn't race on it or ride for training pleasure outside, but a large part of it may be I place a priority on having a certain level of feel to the components, so it is largely subjective. Still, I stand by what I said though.
Dunno, had 105 r7000 11s on a bike and the shifting was absolutely perfect, smooth as and with very light inputs from controls, even for front shifts. Would say it was smoother than Ultegra r6800.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Yoeleo H10 bars 7.5kg

Lina
Posts: 215
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

Sanjuro wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:40 pm
MikeD wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:27 pm
Sanjuro wrote:I'd maybe agree with her if she said Ultegra and included carbon wheels, but 105 is a boat anchor and Ultegra just performs and feels so much better, as do a pair of ~45 deep wheels. If she had upgraded to that point and said that, then sure, I'd agree anything beyond there is marginal gains in terms of seconds on the road, but performance, feel and snappiness on a climb also count for something. I think she is either selling herself a little short on that opinion or just looking to be provocative. It's true the strongest rider on the road doesn't need anything more than what she describes, but there's something to be said about feel and performance to a level a little higher than that. And then of course, as others have said, going beyond that point is as much a hobby and a love of bikes as anything else.
https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/he ... gra-201326 200g difference, little difference performance/shifting. Major price difference.

A set of quality cables like Jagwire Elite Road just makes it better too.
I disagree. I have 105 on my Zwift training bike. It works. I wouldn't race on it or ride for training pleasure outside, but a large part of it may be I place a priority on having a certain level of feel to the components, so it is largely subjective. Still, I stand by what I said though.
With the same cables and cable runs there is no difference in shifting between 105, Ultergra, and DA. All you get is less weight and more prestige.

rides4beer
Posts: 611
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:27 am
Location: SC

by rides4beer

I've had r7000 and r8000 on multiple bikes, shifting performance is exactly the same, which is to say fantastic for both. There is def a slight difference in material feel/quality with r8000, and you can adjust the lever reach, which you can't do with r7000. Along with slightly less weight of course, so there are benefits to going with Ultegra. If there was 105 di2, I would get that, but there isn't, so I'll be going with Udi2 for the new bike, but for now, the r7000 is performing flawlessly.

MikeD
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

Sanjuro wrote:
MikeD wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:27 pm
Sanjuro wrote:I'd maybe agree with her if she said Ultegra and included carbon wheels, but 105 is a boat anchor and Ultegra just performs and feels so much better, as do a pair of ~45 deep wheels. If she had upgraded to that point and said that, then sure, I'd agree anything beyond there is marginal gains in terms of seconds on the road, but performance, feel and snappiness on a climb also count for something. I think she is either selling herself a little short on that opinion or just looking to be provocative. It's true the strongest rider on the road doesn't need anything more than what she describes, but there's something to be said about feel and performance to a level a little higher than that. And then of course, as others have said, going beyond that point is as much a hobby and a love of bikes as anything else.
https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/he ... gra-201326 200g difference, little difference performance/shifting. Major price difference.

A set of quality cables like Jagwire Elite Road just makes it better too.
I disagree. I have 105 on my Zwift training bike. It works. I wouldn't race on it or ride for training pleasure outside, but a large part of it may be I place a priority on having a certain level of feel to the components, so it is largely subjective. Still, I stand by what I said though.
I'd suspect your cables are at fault.

User avatar
Sanjuro
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:31 am
Location: Mullberry fields

by Sanjuro

MikeD wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:20 pm
I'd suspect your cables are at fault.
No, the cables are fine. The frame is an Allez, which I use for Zwift and winter riding. It's pretty good. I like the geometry. Bit relaxed/high in the front end, but it handles well. The cable guide beneath the bottom bracket is pretty crap though, as-is routing through there, so there is an unnecessary bit of friction there that could have some effect.
Last edited by Sanjuro on Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

quadlt250
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:25 pm

by quadlt250

Central tendency & post-purchase rationalization at work!

wooglins
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:07 pm

by wooglins

MikeD wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:27 pm
Sanjuro wrote:I'd maybe agree with her if she said Ultegra and included carbon wheels, but 105 is a boat anchor and Ultegra just performs and feels so much better, as do a pair of ~45 deep wheels. If she had upgraded to that point and said that, then sure, I'd agree anything beyond there is marginal gains in terms of seconds on the road, but performance, feel and snappiness on a climb also count for something. I think she is either selling herself a little short on that opinion or just looking to be provocative. It's true the strongest rider on the road doesn't need anything more than what she describes, but there's something to be said about feel and performance to a level a little higher than that. And then of course, as others have said, going beyond that point is as much a hobby and a love of bikes as anything else.
https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/he ... gra-201326 200g difference, little difference performance/shifting. Major price difference.

A set of quality cables like Jagwire Elite Road just makes it better too.
Here is the whole enchilada leaving out geometry etcetera. You really only need wheels and shoes/pedals to get the majority of the the benefits afforded by recent advancements. Ultegra is the best value IMHO based of feel but 105 or Dura Ace or something else is all good. Its just gears in the end.

schlafen
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:51 pm

by schlafen


Sanjuro wrote:
MikeD wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:20 pm
I'd suspect your cables are at fault.
No, the cables are fine. The frame is an Allez, which I use for Zwift and winter riding. It's pretty good. I like the geometry. Bit relaxed/high in the front end, but it handles well. The cable guide beneath the bottom bracket is pretty crap though, as-is routing through there, so there is an unnecessary bit of friction there that could have some effect.
I would try a piece of liner there and if shifting changes you can run a short section through the cable guide.

If the botton bracket cable guide is the common plastic type you can drill it out slightly and run the liner through it, for that OE look.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk


by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply