30/30s on a smart trainer

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cheapvega
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:12 pm

by cheapvega

I know much volume to shoot for, but what FTP% should I shoot for? Should I start with my 30s CP?

by Weenie


Andrew69
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by Andrew69

The goal of 30:30's is to train @vo2 max but the intervals allow you to spend more time at vo2 max than you could do with a continuous interval @ vo2 max, so use your vo2 max power (5-6 minute)
Having said that, I watched a video yesterday by Stephen Seiler where he presented evidence that 30 seconds rest was probably too much and didnt elict anywhere near the same metabolic response that 30:15's or 40:20's did, and indeed, wasnt much better than a continous interval @vo2 max

stoney
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by stoney

40:20's is the way to go. I do them about 25 watts harder than my 5 minute power so those final 10 seconds really suck.

cheapvega
Posts: 246
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by cheapvega

Holy crap going by my 30s power would have been death lol. I will give 40:20s a shot; the Snap is supposedly pretty responsive.

glepore
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by glepore

stoney wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:50 pm
40:20's is the way to go. I do them about 25 watts harder than my 5 minute power so those final 10 seconds really suck.
yup, they do, and the fourth to sixth interval even more so
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scapie
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by scapie

cheapvega wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:54 am
I know much volume to shoot for, but what FTP% should I shoot for? Should I start with my 30s CP?
I’ve done a fair few of these sessions. Actually I posted about them a little a while back…

How much volume are you going to do? When I do them i do either 2 sets of 8 or 2 sets of 10 reps with 10min recovery.

Seen as you’re asking about % of FTP my opinion is to not do them by a preset power, instead run the trainer on slope/gradient mode and go as hard as you can for each effort.

when i want to do a block of these I program a full workout, incl warmup, on slope mode. I make the 30 sec efforts at between 2.5-3% gradient. When I first start doing them I’ll program the session at 2.5% but after a few weeks i increase to 2.75 and then 3%. This means I am usually still using the same gear combo for the session but its just a little bit harder.

There is a bit of a knack to get the most out of these shorter style efforts. Here is a bit of a description on how I do them…

Start with 5sec hard sprint with focus on getting a good max power (the first 5-10sec of the effort is quite important to get a high max power. Not absolute max but very high) Then sit down, shift to a harder gear, and drive it for 10sec. Then out of saddle for another 5 sec sprint and back down, maybe shift to harder gear, and drive the last 10sec to end. If you do these properly they are extremely difficult but very good for making horsepower gains.

If you take this approach the first few efforts will have very good max power and also good average power and it’ll slowly get lower and lower towards the end of the set. your heartrate will be the opposite. at the start it won't be that high and will come down but towards the end it will be very high and hardly come down between efforts.

If you get the workout done like this you have done a good sessoin. If your power is roughly even across all 8-10 efforts, or its higher in the last 2, then you have not gone hard enough for the set.

If you’re interested I can explain some more. This way is a lot different to what most people do and last time I posted about it no one was interested lol

Andrew69
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by Andrew69

There is lots on information on short intervals out there and what appears to be the optimal interval to rest ratio as well as number of intervals, total time spent above vo2 max, etc
For anyone interested in diving down that rabbit hole, just search for Ronnestad Intervals
Having said that Ronnestad was very quick to point out that everyone should monitor their progress using his protocol because not everyone has the same physiological response so what work for one person may not work for another (ie some people respond better to a traditional vo2 max workout using longer interval durations)

Singular
Posts: 227
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:59 am

by Singular

30/30 is a bit of a condundrum, as it can be both an over/under or a tabata-style workout (on/off). Which one are you opting for?

Andrew69
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by Andrew69

DId a session today using 3 x 13, 30:15 @ 120-125% FTP: 50-60% FTP (Ronnestad Intervals)
First set of 13 feels kind of easy, 2nd set feels solid and by half way through the last set, you are wishing the pain would stop.

Havent done these in a while and I forgot just how much they can hurt!

Lozaen
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Location: Switzerland

by Lozaen

As Andrew pointed out in the post before the last, it is highly dependend on your personal capability, what's best for you. So if one is new to this kind of interval training, starting with 30/30 might not lead to the absolute maximum result, but at least, chances are good to be doable.
Once one has gotten a little bit used to it, one might shift towards 30/20 and eventually 40/20, or even 45/15.

There are different philisophies. In my personal oppinion, I am more the "quality before quantity"-guy.
So for example, if your plan is to do 2 sets of 15 intervals, but in the second set you can't deliver the planned power after the 10th or 12th repetition, in my opinion it is pointless to do an extra 3 or 5 intervals at lower power. This will only stress your body and lead to longer recovery time, but not contribute to the wanted adaptation. Or not in the right way, to justify the longer recovery.
Therefore I disagree with scapie. Using a fixed "slope" and leaving the "power" to you, you will probably end up doing the intervals to easy. Also too complicated regimes seem pointless to me, but if they work for someone, that's fine.
If you can do the two sets easily, than the power was simply not chosen high enough.
The aim should be to be nearly fully exhausted after this type of session, regardless of the absolute power figures or intervall counts. So a good starting point is probably around 115 % of your FTP and than do as many intervalls as you can maintain this power. Again, once one get's adapted to that kind of stress, reaching for 120-130% is better. But this definitely requires mental toughness, as Andrew points out in the last post...this relly hurts.

Well trained athletes might even go for 150% or above. So a different approach might be to go the other way round, set a quite high power value as target, go for it, as long as you can maintain the power, even if is only 5 intervalls, than have a 10-15 minute rest, and go for a second set with the same power and crank out another couple of repetitions, and call it a day afterwards.
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cheapvega
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:12 pm

by cheapvega

Lots of great advice. I will try a 30/15 workout on my next "intensity" day. Only 67 TSS/0.87 IF so hopefully not too painful

by Weenie


Cycomanic
Posts: 294
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by Cycomanic

Actually this type of workout is where Xert with their MPA (Maximal Power Available) concept really shines. It's essentially a (quite accurate in my experience) calculation of how much power you have available at any moment. By doing intervals you are reducing this power (and if you actually surpass it, your power profile gets updated). So that allows you to do the 30/30 intervals based on MPA, i.e. it reduces during your on time and increases again during off time. So you can set them up that you reach exhaustion end the end of your intervals. They have a couple of workouts that do that in their workout library, might be worth checking out their trial subscription.

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