Basso Diamante: Winging it into 2021

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Moderators: maxim809, MrCurrieinahurry, Moderator Team

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LewisK
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:11 pm

by LewisK

dudemanppl wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:17 pm
Yes because they aren't carbon.
Yea the Superleggera/Superzero aren't great.I couldn't get Campagnolo shifters to work that well without akward bends into the holes and even then you can't really position them that high!

maxim809
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Posts: 567
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:28 am

by maxim809

Thanks everyone, it's coming together surely. Yeah the Deda bends in the shifter area can be funky on some models. Luckily, I can ride with low shifters and sometimes prefer it for certain fits... but it's not for everyone.

@Visqu - EPS + WTO is such a great one-two punch. So many great frame choices to match with. That 3T bar looks like a great option and I'm going to consider it for future builds. Those drop flairs would help a ton when sprinting, and for the other 99% of the ride the narrow hoods fit the bill.

@Moltobene Wow awesome, congrats! We'll have to compare notes on the chain length thing when all's said and done. I plan to do a post on it in a few updates from now. Yeah, the Quantums look great and it's really split for me between it and the SuperZero. Big pro's to both. Electric vs Mech choice could help tip the decision.

by Weenie


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maxim809
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by maxim809

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I plan to use Silca’s SS drip wax for the chain. Conveniently, it’s okay to let the chain sit indefinitely in the Silca cold wax until ready to install. Thus, I want to size my chain and strip the factory grease to get that going.

So now it’s group set decision time.

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Quick segue.

The Silca tub can easily fit several chains inside. There is also so much solution that I anticipate being able to prep at least a couple dozen fresh chains. I’m pretty much set for years to come.

And that’s accounting for handing out waxed chains every Halloween going forward. Hope these kids ride SRAM AXS.

Anyway, the reason I got the squirt bottle too, is because without it I was having to reapply using a parfait spoon straight from the container. Which was quickly getting messy, wasteful, and downright risky given my goldfish memory and intended nature of the spoon.

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So back on track:

I’m going with Campy 12spd. Not sure if mech or EPS.

I considered 11spd Campy and current-gen Di2. Speaking of Di2, I’ve gathered enough long term shifting data to be worth checking out. And it’s poking me to go with a 12spd drivetrain.

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Mountainous areas mean wider cassettes, which means either a middle cog or the 11T is traded away to achieve such range. In my case the 16T is sacrificed to the KOM Gods, along with my first-born e-bike. Both very important things for shredding the rolling hills that lead to the base of bigger climbs.

Di2 stats pretty much told me I’m spending the most time in the Big Ring + 15T, 17T combos.

Putting that in context, each of these cogs see about 1 hour of use during a 5 hour ride. Some fraction of those 2 hours is either under or over geared for my natural cadence.

To keep the graph clean, I omitted the largest cogs as well as all the little-ring combos for a 11-30T Shimano cassette. Each omitted combo saw about 2~5% usage, bearing in mind I set Di2 to lock out cross chaining.

So yeah. In an ironic twist, Shimano’s unintended recommendation is to go with a competitor’s 12spd to fill that 16T hole. Here’s hoping:

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The ~12% is based on summing the 15T & 17T percentages and dividing by 3, then distributing amongst the 3 cogs with a weight towards 17T to account for the missing 18T. The 19T remains forever tall, given it has gaps on both sides.

Gaps.

Speaking of gaps. You ever go on a drop group ride, and in a moment when the pace is just a touch too fast you let a bike length open up in front of you, and the rider behind yells, “Fill that gap!” as you fumble to find the right gear?

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It all makes sense now.

He was trying to help me realize I needed to roll to a stop on the side of the road and build an additional 16T cog into my existing 11spd cassette, using only a hobby knife and Sugru - “The Moldable Glue”.

Such advanced cycling wisdom. These are the things GCN doesn’t teach you.

Now taking bets on which comes out first: my hand crafted 12spd cassette or 12spd Di2. Yeah, next-gen Di2 is going to be sweet. Until then, it’s either Campy or SRAM AXS to satisfy the hilly cadence-weenie.

I considered SRAM AXS, but the O2 would have been a better frame for that. I pause to think about how different everything would be today had I gone the other direction.

Anyway, as comfortable as this armchair is it's time to work.

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hartox
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:44 am

by hartox

I would opt for the superzero. The aero basso handlebar I had before was fine, but I didn't like the shape (my wrists hit the handlebar while I was in the drops). The only drawback is that the Deda's don't flare outward.

Btw, I could mount my shifters high enough for me.
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nismosr
Posts: 1480
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 5:15 pm

by nismosr

wow congrats ! i'm a blue color kind a guy .. love the color .. I have the 51 cm Diamante in Red what components are you going to use ? love that Basso Bar if you're not going to use let me know if you want to sell it, I'm using Deda superlaggera right now.
2020 Colnago C64 Mapei - Campagnolo SR12 EPS - Campagnolo Bora WTO 60
2020 Basso Diamante - Campagnolo SR11 EPS - LW Meilenstein
2021 Basso Diamante SV - Campagnolo SR12 EPS - Fulcrum Wind 55

maxim809
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Posts: 567
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:28 am

by maxim809

@hartox Good to know on wrist clearance. I noticed Basso's shallow drop and thought they must have based this design to complement the frame's aggressive front end. It's only 1cm shallower, but I can see that making all the difference. Hey nice build!

@nismosr Thanks! Either Campy mech or EPS 12spd. Your red Diamante is sweet. Sure I'll keep you in mind for the bars based on how things go.

maxim809
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by maxim809

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Gearing will be 52/36 x 11-32T.

The frame feels like an all rounder and I’m nudging a bit towards the climbing end. With drivetrain selected it's chain cutting time. But first let's compare Chorus vs Super Record 12spd chains just for funsies.

Anything to push off actual work.

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A 14g diff.

Nice, hollowing out 114 pins just made back the weight of one pair of brake pads. Guess I'll be installing them after all. The brake pads I mean.

Back to business, here's the thing. The instructions are pretty straightforward for sizing a Campagnolo 12spd chain: Cut it down to 110 links as long as the chainstay and gearing fall in a “typical” range. Couple caveats for larger stays and super-compact gearing, but clear instructions exist for those as well.

Campy has no official literature for undersized 400mm stays like the one on the Diamante. Scoured the Campy website, their YouTube channel, the included paper manuals, and of course Google. Which we know I’m bad at.

Man that 400mm. Not tall enough for this ride, I guess.

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Faced with this, I had several other options:
  1. Don't overthink. Start with 110 link and figure it out as I go.
  2. Traditional Campy method: Run chain through Small/Small and pulleys to size.
  3. Weep and overthink.
  4. Use chain length sizing equations to estimate necessary links for a 400mm / 52x32 drivetrain.
  5. See if Option 4's result are bounded by the results of running equations on Campy recommended stays / gearing.
  6. Ask for help.
Sitting here now, I realize the rational thing to do was always 1.

But I ended up doing most of these options. The only one worth reporting is the reenactment of Option 6: Reaching out to Basso and Campagnolo for help:

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Hm okay.

I realized there is a gray area here where both answers could actually be right, and I'm just going to have to noodle with it myself to figure out what works best for my situation. Wow.

It’s just like real life.

By the way, despite different recommendations they were very nice and helpful. I also behaved during the ‘real’ interactions.

Anyway, knowing that a slacker chain has a chance at being less noisy, I'm going to start with 110 and if the chain starts slapping my underdeveloped right calf every time I rail through a pothole, I'll size down to 108 links later. Good thing the chain’ll be waxed, so less risk of dirty grime marks on the leg.

The worst that happens if I mess this all up, is I start all over with the Chorus chain and remove a pair of brake pads. Yeah, that's not too bad.

Also, there was a Secret Option 7: Calnago’s chain length thread.

Snip.

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By the way, I like that the Campy chain tool has a pin to lock the chain in place.

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With other tools you can press down with a thumb, or simply let gravity do the work once the chain is seated. Yet, despite the fact I don’t always push the pin in all way as I'm supposed to, I appreciate that Campy thinks of the little details.

All is forgiven with that wild chain length goose chase fiasco.

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Oh boy. I can see the grease oozing between where the links meet.

Campagnolo factory grease is seriously thick and sticky like nectar. I'm sure it's great for shelf life amongst other things I'm unaware of, and a part of me feels legitimately sad about removing it. Thank you for your service, Mr. Packing Grease....

That said, nothing attracts dirt and mud quite like a fresh Campy chain. And it's one of the toughest to get completely clean once you're a few hundred miles in.

Chain breakdown:

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Full chain: 114 links (this is where I got 5.7g for bags and tags earlier).

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Removed -4 links.

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The glorious 110 links.

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First bath is left-over mineral spirits from my previous chain's final wash. I generally follow Molten Speed Wax's instructions. I substitute lint free paper towels instead of rags.

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ZeroFrictionCycling actually recommends 3 agitated baths when stripping a Campy chain, over Shimano's two. That factory grease sure is something.

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The color is matching the grease. Must be working. To be eventually recycled of course.

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Now to let sit overnight. Next to my overnight oats.

Hey, I like organizing by things that match. As wise man on KOM mountain once said: +2 watts for everything that matches.

If there's no update in a couple days, please call poison control.




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Leviathan
Posts: 1290
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Mallorca, Spain
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by Leviathan

Ive got a diamante and had a Factor O2. On sheer handling, youve made the correct choice. Of all the bikes Ive ridden, only the Diamante and the older cannondale supersix are as much fun when you point them downhill.

Thijs6252
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:30 pm
Location: Zevenaar, The Netherlands

by Thijs6252

Great stuff and project you got here! I was kind of glad to see the frameweight is about the same of my Specialized SL5. I thought I was only one who doesn't have a sub 1 kg frame for his project. If you like Italian stuff, maybe an option to go for a 3T handlebar, components?
2018 Specialized Tarmac SL5

maxim809
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:28 am

by maxim809

That's encouraging to hear Leviathan. I climb for the descent, and always on the search for a great handling frame.

maxim809
Moderator
Posts: 567
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:28 am

by maxim809

@Thijs6252 Yeah I think it's tough to do 'mainstream' Italian without going over 1kg.

In my case, not only did I leave the RD hangar on but I think my frame's colorway is especially generous with the layers of paint to achieve its deep metallic / glossy colorway. But I like the way it looks.

Thanks, I'm definitely contemplating the 3T Aeroflux as a potential swap down the road.

by Weenie


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