Shimano restricting online UK sales to the US & Canada.

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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robertbb
Posts: 1616
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Berzin1 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:14 am
The times I've supported my lbs I've been disappointed to the point where I just stopped cycling for a while, so what I and many others do is get one of the shop mechanics to do any work needed after hours either in their home or during a house call. So it's $100 or so US dollars to put a bike together, as opposed to $250-$300 plus tax and tip in a shop.

And I order everything online.

That whole "support your local lbs" mantra to me is outdated and unnecessary. I don't owe anyone a living, and I certainly won't pay full retail when there are so many other outlets that sell for less in an invironment where I don't have to deal with bike shop owners and employees. Been there, done that and got sick and tired of it.

Go with whatever works for you. I've never understood needing to have a "relationship" with a local shop when the fact is it's a service business, and those services can be duplicated for less going the non=traditional route.
Absolutely. And the "relationship" is entirely one way. You don't owe your LBS any more than you do your grocer... or the stores you buy your clothes. You are entitled to shop around.

Meanwhile the (big) manucfacturers contract their production to the cheapest factories in countries with the cheapest labour. Not always, but mostly. And the likes of Shimano limit sales by geography. They aren't "protecting" distributors or shops, they're protecting themselves.

I got to a point where I was so fed up of arrogant, useless mechanics I ended up buying some basic tools and searching for manuals. Some months later I got into it so much, I had put together a fully funtional bike "workshop" at home to work on the equipment I have. Cost about $500 in tools. Paid for itself with the first bike build, basically. That was about 5 years ago. I recommend, if you're that way inclined, you give it a go. It's heaps of fun and very satisfying riding equipment you've built yourself.

by Weenie


uraqt
Posts: 1030
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:53 am

by uraqt

everything robertbb said and....

if you do it yourself you know it's "perfect"... with the light weight parts, integrated designs and reading skills needed to set up and install bike parts, I wouldn't trust anyone but myself. It's a safty issue at 50 MPH...

C

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

Orbital wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:34 am
TonyM wrote:
Orbital wrote:Against my better judgement of dredging up arguements on how to run a LBS, I noticed Merlin still ships to Canada on their site but are missing some of the items I need to complete a GRX build. Any other sites still selling to NA?
FYI, I just ordered from Merlin 2 times in the last month to Canada (B.C.) and beside the fact that the prices for the Shimano products are way more expensive than last year (sometimes up to +30%) each time I had to pay 15% to DHL for brokerage fees and taxes (instead of normally 7% with Canada Post)....
Yeah, a friend at work ordered a full Di2 groupset from Merlin to go with an F10 he also ordered. Unfortunately he shipped it all to Point Roberts to save duty and taxes but hasn’t been able to collect it due to border closures.
Recently I have been doing some online orders from Western Canada and also Eastern(Quebec) as like you say its getting more expensive to order from the UK with shipping and some of the geo restrictions.
https://bicicletta.cc
https://www.thebikeshop.com
https://www.primeauvelo.com
https://www.viaciclante.com
Canada is getting better for online shopping and more reasonable spend for free shipping but we still have a ways to go yet.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154188
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2012 Time RXRS Ulteam Rim Brake
2008 Time VXR Rim Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

TheRich
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

robertbb wrote: Absolutely. And the "relationship" is entirely one way. You don't owe your LBS any more than you do your grocer... or the stores you buy your clothes. You are entitled to shop around.

Meanwhile the (big) manucfacturers contract their production to the cheapest factories in countries with the cheapest labour. Not always, but mostly. And the likes of Shimano limit sales by geography. They aren't "protecting" distributors or shops, they're protecting themselves.
Not sure how ensuring an entire business sector has less revenue will drive them to provide better overall service.

Same principle applies to the shipping restrictions. Those UK mail-order prices are lower than US cost for dealers....that's not hyperbole, that's the literal truth. US mail order is pretty close to dealer cost already.

I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying we shouldn't be surprised by the consequences of our actions.

icantaffordcycling
Posts: 1279
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am
Location: Bay Area, CA

by icantaffordcycling

^^ this
I have access to a lot of good dealer pricing. Even with my gold S-Tec account. Ordering XTR brakes was cheaper from merlin after tax.

Orbital
Posts: 307
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:52 am
Location: Pitt Meadows, BC

by Orbital

bikeboy1tr wrote:
Orbital wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:34 am
TonyM wrote:
Orbital wrote:Against my better judgement of dredging up arguements on how to run a LBS, I noticed Merlin still ships to Canada on their site but are missing some of the items I need to complete a GRX build. Any other sites still selling to NA?
FYI, I just ordered from Merlin 2 times in the last month to Canada (B.C.) and beside the fact that the prices for the Shimano products are way more expensive than last year (sometimes up to +30%) each time I had to pay 15% to DHL for brokerage fees and taxes (instead of normally 7% with Canada Post)....
Yeah, a friend at work ordered a full Di2 groupset from Merlin to go with an F10 he also ordered. Unfortunately he shipped it all to Point Roberts to save duty and taxes but hasn’t been able to collect it due to border closures.
Recently I have been doing some online orders from Western Canada and also Eastern(Quebec) as like you say its getting more expensive to order from the UK with shipping and some of the geo restrictions.
https://bicicletta.cc
https://www.thebikeshop.com
https://www.primeauvelo.com
https://www.viaciclante.com
Canada is getting better for online shopping and more reasonable spend for free shipping but we still have a ways to go yet.
I’ve ordered from all those shops too in the past 6 months. Pricing is obviously higher than a lot of Euro shops but shipping was the main deciding factor. I needed my stuff ASAP!

robertbb
Posts: 1616
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

TheRich wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:58 pm
robertbb wrote: Absolutely. And the "relationship" is entirely one way. You don't owe your LBS any more than you do your grocer... or the stores you buy your clothes. You are entitled to shop around.

Meanwhile the (big) manucfacturers contract their production to the cheapest factories in countries with the cheapest labour. Not always, but mostly. And the likes of Shimano limit sales by geography. They aren't "protecting" distributors or shops, they're protecting themselves.
Not sure how ensuring an entire business sector has less revenue will drive them to provide better overall service.

Same principle applies to the shipping restrictions. Those UK mail-order prices are lower than US cost for dealers....that's not hyperbole, that's the literal truth. US mail order is pretty close to dealer cost already.

I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying we shouldn't be surprised by the consequences of our actions.
Why is it OK for manufacturers to scour the planet for the best countries to make their goods (labour, taxes, logistics) and yet seek to prevent their own customers from seeking out the most cost effective option?

If an industry requires such interventions, the model is simply wrong. Far be it for me to wish to see the LBS disappear or people lose their livelihood as a result, I do not wish that, but times have changed and the change is accelerating. In all industries. And cycling, though we all love it, is simply an industry at the end of the day.

User avatar
TonyM
Posts: 3324
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

bikeboy1tr wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:53 pm
Orbital wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:34 am
TonyM wrote:
Orbital wrote:Against my better judgement of dredging up arguements on how to run a LBS, I noticed Merlin still ships to Canada on their site but are missing some of the items I need to complete a GRX build. Any other sites still selling to NA?
FYI, I just ordered from Merlin 2 times in the last month to Canada (B.C.) and beside the fact that the prices for the Shimano products are way more expensive than last year (sometimes up to +30%) each time I had to pay 15% to DHL for brokerage fees and taxes (instead of normally 7% with Canada Post)....
Yeah, a friend at work ordered a full Di2 groupset from Merlin to go with an F10 he also ordered. Unfortunately he shipped it all to Point Roberts to save duty and taxes but hasn’t been able to collect it due to border closures.
Recently I have been doing some online orders from Western Canada and also Eastern(Quebec) as like you say its getting more expensive to order from the UK with shipping and some of the geo restrictions.
https://bicicletta.cc
https://www.thebikeshop.com
https://www.primeauvelo.com
https://www.viaciclante.com
Canada is getting better for online shopping and more reasonable spend for free shipping but we still have a ways to go yet.
Thanks for the links! 👍👏 :beerchug:
Last edited by TonyM on Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TonyM
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

deleted - double post

TheRich
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

robertbb wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:55 pm
TheRich wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:58 pm
robertbb wrote: Absolutely. And the "relationship" is entirely one way. You don't owe your LBS any more than you do your grocer... or the stores you buy your clothes. You are entitled to shop around.

Meanwhile the (big) manucfacturers contract their production to the cheapest factories in countries with the cheapest labour. Not always, but mostly. And the likes of Shimano limit sales by geography. They aren't "protecting" distributors or shops, they're protecting themselves.
Not sure how ensuring an entire business sector has less revenue will drive them to provide better overall service.

Same principle applies to the shipping restrictions. Those UK mail-order prices are lower than US cost for dealers....that's not hyperbole, that's the literal truth. US mail order is pretty close to dealer cost already.

I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying we shouldn't be surprised by the consequences of our actions.
Why is it OK for manufacturers to scour the planet for the best countries to make their goods (labour, taxes, logistics) and yet seek to prevent their own customers from seeking out the most cost effective option?

If an industry requires such interventions, the model is simply wrong. Far be it for me to wish to see the LBS disappear or people lose their livelihood as a result, I do not wish that, but times have changed and the change is accelerating. In all industries. And cycling, though we all love it, is simply an industry at the end of the day.
Why are you talking about manufacturers now?

I already told you the consequences of our collective actions, and I don't see you disputing a single thing I said.

robertbb
Posts: 1616
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

I didn't realise you set the agenda of what is/isn't to be discussed. Thanks for setting me straight.

(I'm responding to the topic.)

TheRich
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

robertbb wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:06 am
I didn't realise you set the agenda of what is/isn't to be discussed. Thanks for setting me straight.

(I'm responding to the topic.)
You responded to my post, which addressed two separate things. Then, in the face of evidence, you change the subject. You seem to not want to accept that there may be factors at work other than a perceived general desire to screw the customer over.

robertbb
Posts: 1616
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

So your opinion is "evidence".
And you get to decide what points are "on topic" (or not).

:lol:

You'd be fun at parties.

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

TonyM wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:12 am
bikeboy1tr wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:53 pm
Orbital wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:34 am
TonyM wrote:
FYI, I just ordered from Merlin 2 times in the last month to Canada (B.C.) and beside the fact that the prices for the Shimano products are way more expensive than last year (sometimes up to +30%) each time I had to pay 15% to DHL for brokerage fees and taxes (instead of normally 7% with Canada Post)....
Yeah, a friend at work ordered a full Di2 groupset from Merlin to go with an F10 he also ordered. Unfortunately he shipped it all to Point Roberts to save duty and taxes but hasn’t been able to collect it due to border closures.
Recently I have been doing some online orders from Western Canada and also Eastern(Quebec) as like you say its getting more expensive to order from the UK with shipping and some of the geo restrictions.
https://bicicletta.cc
https://www.thebikeshop.com
https://www.primeauvelo.com
https://www.viaciclante.com
Canada is getting better for online shopping and more reasonable spend for free shipping but we still have a ways to go yet.
Np I was doing the same thing as Orbital, needing some parts before a months time and wasnt too sure DHL Express through Merlin would get me parts any sooner or for any less money. I have been using primeauvelo for some time now but its still a bit slow with Covid and Canada Post being the only option but I wont complain as $100 spend is free shipping. Pre Covid the shipping was normally a weeks time to arrive.
Thanks for the links! 👍👏 :beerchug:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154188
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2012 Time RXRS Ulteam Rim Brake
2008 Time VXR Rim Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

by Weenie


TheRich
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

robertbb wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:08 am
So your opinion is "evidence".
And you get to decide what points are "on topic" (or not).

:lol:

You'd be fun at parties.
My evidence for mail order vs dealer cost is evidence, everything after that is common sense.

If you're so worked up about prices, you should look into a nice alloy framed 105 bike.

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