2020 Aethos. Sub UCI weight Specialized.

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Moderator: robbosmans

What defines the rumoured UCI Illegal Specialized

Doesn't Exist
61
27%
More aero than the Venge
38
17%
Lighter than the Tarmac SL6
88
39%
More aero than the Venge AND lighter than the Tarmac SL6
27
12%
Not sure
14
6%
 
Total votes: 228

FactoryMatt
Posts: 780
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:35 am

by FactoryMatt

robeambro wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:42 am
Knightyboy27 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:52 am
FactoryMatt wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:46 am
Cyclingtips sl7 podcast is interesting. The spesh engineers are mum on it. They know something.
I'll take a listen later, but there's an interesting quote in the Cyclingtips review of the SL7

“So currently the Venge in our line right now does not meet much of a need for that rider looking for the performance product.”

Sounds like they've left an opening for something new, and the author even mentions that in their final thoughts.
What a pile of turd.. Doesn't meet the needs.. It's basically the same bike with 100g more weight and an inch more aero. What a bunch of marketing clowns.
Yes indeed. 2020 is definitely the year of emotional manipulation.

Taken positively, you could say theyre implying the aerodynamic purist will be better served by a design not restricted by any sactioning body.

by Weenie


bikewithnoname
Posts: 1329
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:29 pm
Location: UK

by bikewithnoname

Well yeah, Lotus worked that out in the early 90's (although at the 108 superbike was UCI legal)
"We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities." Oscar Wilde

Pegoretti, Parlee, Donhou, Various others

Hexsense
Posts: 1486
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

so, if it is a reborn of Venge line would they call it reVenge?

Maddie
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:44 am

by Maddie

Hexsense wrote:so, if it is a reborn of Venge line would they call it reVenge?
ImageImage

otnemem
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:55 am

by otnemem

They're not touching the Shiv for a while, that's for sure.

Yoln
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:26 pm

by Yoln

Source of the rumor?
Wilier “Cento Ramato“ : viewtopic.php?f=10&t=160943

Lynskey “the Do-it-all Helix” 🧬: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161550

AJS914
Posts: 4363
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Lighter than the Tarmac SL6
You could already easily build a less than 6.8kg Tarmac with stockish parts.

viewtopic.php?t=156162

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

If "UCI-illegal" means 6.5kg, they might as well not release it. If weight really was the matter of breaking the UCI rules, it has to as light or lighter than the Canyon Ultimate Evo to make any sense. A non-aero lightweight bike, that is "only" 3-500g lighter than a Stock Tarmac SL7 will be a bad choice for 99% of people.
Cervélo S5 Disc (2019) - 7.8kg
Open Cycles WI.DE (2019) - 8.5kg
Specialized Shiv TT Disc (2020) - 7.9kg
Specialized SW Aethos (2021) 6.4kg
Trek Émonda SLR9 (soon)

*all weights include pedals, computer mounts, and bottle cages.

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

Oh yes, a bike, more aero than the Venge and lighter than the current Tarmac wouldn't be product I would want to have in my portfolio if I were Spesh. Specialized invested millions to develop the SL7, and further millions to have pros around the world ride the bike and win races on it. That is the ultimate marketing to "legitimize" what they developed. Now putting out a bike that is "better in every way" than the "best in every way" would completely undermine what they did with the SL7. Also, they have to push marketing solely through their own channels, as their pros will never ride it. If I were a pro, I wouldn't be happy riding a brands second best.
Cervélo S5 Disc (2019) - 7.8kg
Open Cycles WI.DE (2019) - 8.5kg
Specialized Shiv TT Disc (2020) - 7.9kg
Specialized SW Aethos (2021) 6.4kg
Trek Émonda SLR9 (soon)

*all weights include pedals, computer mounts, and bottle cages.

FactoryMatt
Posts: 780
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:35 am

by FactoryMatt

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:02 pm
Oh yes, a bike, more aero than the Venge and lighter than the current Tarmac wouldn't be product I would want to have in my portfolio if I were Spesh. Specialized invested millions to develop the SL7, and further millions to have pros around the world ride the bike and win races on it. That is the ultimate marketing to "legitimize" what they developed. Now putting out a bike that is "better in every way" than the "best in every way" would completely undermine what they did with the SL7. Also, they have to push marketing solely through their own channels, as their pros will never ride it. If I were a pro, I wouldn't be happy riding a brands second best.
take everything you just said and explain gravel. ppl dont give a flying fk about the UCI or about any american road racer not named lance armstrong.


FlatlandClimber wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:58 pm
If "UCI-illegal" means 6.5kg, they might as well not release it. If weight really was the matter of breaking the UCI rules, it has to as light or lighter than the Canyon Ultimate Evo to make any sense. A non-aero lightweight bike, that is "only" 3-500g lighter than a Stock Tarmac SL7 will be a bad choice for 99% of people.
not weight.

Image

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

FactoryMatt wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:33 am
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:02 pm
Oh yes, a bike, more aero than the Venge and lighter than the current Tarmac wouldn't be product I would want to have in my portfolio if I were Spesh. Specialized invested millions to develop the SL7, and further millions to have pros around the world ride the bike and win races on it. That is the ultimate marketing to "legitimize" what they developed. Now putting out a bike that is "better in every way" than the "best in every way" would completely undermine what they did with the SL7. Also, they have to push marketing solely through their own channels, as their pros will never ride it. If I were a pro, I wouldn't be happy riding a brands second best.
take everything you just said and explain gravel. ppl dont give a flying fk about the UCI or about any american road racer not named lance armstrong.


FlatlandClimber wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:58 pm
If "UCI-illegal" means 6.5kg, they might as well not release it. If weight really was the matter of breaking the UCI rules, it has to as light or lighter than the Canyon Ultimate Evo to make any sense. A non-aero lightweight bike, that is "only" 3-500g lighter than a Stock Tarmac SL7 will be a bad choice for 99% of people.
not weight.

Image
I don't find either of your points particularly convincing.
Gravel for 99% of people is a non-competitive part of cycling, and the product just makes sense of many people, just like SUVs make sense to people. A road bike, that can clear larger tires, has smaller gearing and a more relaxed geo, so people can ride it like an RB and an MTB. My gravel is my leisure bike, my bike packing bike, my fun bike. Just go into the woods, no music, no work out and just explore nature. On a road bike, with 25c tires, I can't do that, since many roads where I live are not rideable for such bike. For me the explanation of gravel is: for road bikers who want to go more places and want a bike that can do more, but not at the disadvantages of an MTB (geo, weight, handlebar, speed on roads). However, I wouldn't buy a new gravel bike based on performance claims like "25 seconds faster over 40k of Dirty Kanza". An all out performance GC bike and a fun bike are so different, that they can't be sold the same way.

Triathlon is not sanctioned by the UCI and has its own rules. Since it's inherintly a 180k TT, a discipline very uncommon in road cycling, it makes sense to do a few things differently from a TT bike (especially when it comes to nutrition). Triathlon has its own "big stage" with its own stars and specialized pays a few of them to ride their bikes, just like they do in competitive road racing.
Who is going to "prove" the concept of a non-UCI legal road bike? Also, does a bike need to be better (to sell it, that is) than the one bike that Peter Sagan will win geh green jersey on and other GC riders will win stages/ classics on?
Don't think that people will crave something faster, and I don't think it would do any good to specialized's portfolio.
Cervélo S5 Disc (2019) - 7.8kg
Open Cycles WI.DE (2019) - 8.5kg
Specialized Shiv TT Disc (2020) - 7.9kg
Specialized SW Aethos (2021) 6.4kg
Trek Émonda SLR9 (soon)

*all weights include pedals, computer mounts, and bottle cages.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 6701
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

I don't know about UCI illegal, but Specialized made the Venge so good/light that they cornered the Tarmac. I don't think the Venge gets deleted...Maybe it gets renamed so the marketing department doesn't suffer the ignominy of *gasp* making it heavier and trying to explain why. I expect a balls-out aero machine with no priority on weight savings. 8kg for the top build? Sure! 3:1 tube profiles, a bayonet fork/steerer combo, optional clip-ons, maximally dropped seatstays, mechanical compliance, etc. It should still be UCI legal and it should be shopped to sometimes triathletes and non-racers who still ride in chain gangs.

I mean, let's compare the Venge and SL7 for the umpteenth time.

160g claimed weight for the frame
40g claimed weight for the fork
maybe 25g in the seatpost
-40ish grams for BB30 vs BSA.

~185g difference

Everything else is interchangeable. You can put an SL7 stem on a Venge if you want. You can put Rapide CLXs on it too. Frankly, I would probably just buy a Venge if I were able to get them at a discount.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

FactoryMatt
Posts: 780
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:35 am

by FactoryMatt

^good post.

ghostinthemachine
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 9:18 pm

by ghostinthemachine

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:02 pm
Also, they have to push marketing solely through their own channels, as their pros will never ride it. If I were a pro, I wouldn't be happy riding a brands second best.
Most pros actually don't give a shit beyond their marketing oblications. As long as it fits and works.
Most pros for 10+ of the last 20 years haven't been riding the brands best, lots of substitutions to bring the weight up, even at frame/fork level.
(The 10 yrs between the UCI weight limit instroduction (2000) and the gradually increasing weight with discs and fokus on aero)
I mean, I retireed before the UCI limmit was introduced, buit the team bikes I have raced at masters through the 00s were mostly over a kilo heavier than what ever personal bike I had. And (mostly) 4 or 5 models down from the brands halo model. No carbon bars/stem/seatpin/saddle, steel skewers and so-on. And I had bikes weighed several times.

by Weenie


ancker
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:29 pm

by ancker

ghostinthemachine wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:22 am
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:02 pm
Also, they have to push marketing solely through their own channels, as their pros will never ride it. If I were a pro, I wouldn't be happy riding a brands second best.
Most pros actually don't give a shit beyond their marketing oblications. As long as it fits and works.
Most pros for 10+ of the last 20 years haven't been riding the brands best, lots of substitutions to bring the weight up, even at frame/fork level.
(The 10 yrs between the UCI weight limit instroduction (2000) and the gradually increasing weight with discs and fokus on aero)
I mean, I retireed before the UCI limmit was introduced, buit the team bikes I have raced at masters through the 00s were mostly over a kilo heavier than what ever personal bike I had. And (mostly) 4 or 5 models down from the brands halo model. No carbon bars/stem/seatpin/saddle, steel skewers and so-on. And I had bikes weighed several times.
Didn't Cancellara pretty much ride only the Domane the last couple years of his career?
Not the lightest, not the fastest(aero), but more comfort meant more speed for him.

Most pros ride what they're given. Some have the clout to request alternatives.

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