Campagnolo Potenza vs Shimano R7000/R8000

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Silver has gone and only residual stock left. black potenza is still about in production for this year. Next year it will have been about for 5 years so ripe for axing or changing into 12 speed.

Centaur remains as a silver groupset.

Theres thread here about a patent for a 1x cassette.

by Weenie


bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

The comment about potenza not being ultegra makes me laugh. 105 and ultegra r7000 feel the same. So it cant be equivalent to 105 and not up to ultegra at the same time.

Vespasianus
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by Vespasianus

bm0p700f wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:58 am
The comment about potenza not being ultegra makes me laugh. 105 and ultegra r7000 feel the same. So it cant be equivalent to 105 and not up to ultegra at the same time.
That was not me saying that but Velonews:

https://www.velonews.com/gear/first-rid ... -groupset/

All I am saying is that press like that is not good news.

Personally, I wanted Campagnolo, but I had a real hard time finding a Potenza set and now I know why.

gorkypl
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by gorkypl

It's an article from 2016, but sounds like bull*hit to me.
Cinelli Superstar Disc - Record 12s

nachetetm
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Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:54 pm

by nachetetm

Vespasianus wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:38 pm
bm0p700f wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:58 am
The comment about potenza not being ultegra makes me laugh. 105 and ultegra r7000 feel the same. So it cant be equivalent to 105 and not up to ultegra at the same time.
That was not me saying that but Velonews:

https://www.velonews.com/gear/first-rid ... -groupset/

All I am saying is that press like that is not good news.

Personally, I wanted Campagnolo, but I had a real hard time finding a Potenza set and now I know why.
Here we have a typical example of why bicycling journalism it hardly matters in the real life. What is the performance level advantage of Ultegra over 105? two hundred and something grams, that's all. What is the weight difference between Ultegra and Potenza? 18 grams. That Campy has three groupsets at the level of Dura Ace, just changing the amount of exotic material they use in each of them doesn't mean that Potenza is 105 or Tiagra level. Performance-wise, Ultegra has nothing over Potenza.
According to Velonews, Potenza costs 1000€. Market price in euros, Potenza and Ultegra cost about the same. Sometimes journalists have an idea in their mind and they conform reality about that idea. Tbh, the only review site I trust says that Potenza vs Ultegra is just a matter of preference:

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/12/campagn ... et-review/

bjarnetv
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by bjarnetv

Well, i havent tried potenza, but the only real difference between 105 and ultegra is the weight and finish quality, and just looking at the weight specs and photos, potenza seems closer to 105 then ultegra IMO.
finding weight specs is always difficult, but to me it seems rimbrake r8000 weighs 2272g, r7000 2453g while potenza is 2.339g (components only)

Sure, some say the ergonomics are good, but if you can't try it before you buy, is it really worth the gamble for people who are used to shimano?

Now if they had managed to make the groupset actually good looking, more people might have been tempted to switch over ;)

nachetetm
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by nachetetm

bjarnetv wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:16 pm
Well, i havent tried potenza, but the only real difference between 105 and ultegra is the weight and finish quality, and just looking at the weight specs and photos, potenza seems closer to 105 then ultegra IMO.
finding weight specs is always difficult, but to me it seems rimbrake r8000 weighs 2272g, r7000 2453g while potenza is 2.339g (components only)

Sure, some say the ergonomics are good, but if you can't try it before you buy, is it really worth the gamble for people who are used to shimano?

Now if they had managed to make the groupset actually good looking, more people might have been tempted to switch over ;)
I honestly don't know what pictures did you look at... Crankset, brakes, levers, everything is finished nicer and looks more luxurious in Campy than in Ultegra.
The gamble of trying Campy is the same as when you buy your first bicycle with Shimano, there is always a first try. Pretty much everyone started with Shimano, it was also my case. But if you do not try you can't know what you miss.
Claiming that Potenza is not good looking and that's a reason for choosing Ultegra :lol:
Everyone is free to use whatever fits their needs. But the same way I do not understand the Campy-or-nothing fans, I also do not understand the Campy-is-not-worthy comments made on vague, third party opinions.

flying
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by flying

bjarnetv wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:16 pm
finding weight specs is always difficult, but to me it seems rimbrake r8000 weighs 2272g, r7000 2453g while potenza is 2.339g (components only)
Rim R8000 is more like 2349gr & Potenza more like 2389gr But for myself It is not weight that makes the difference

I have/had both & for me the Campy wins in quality & function especially braking & front derailleur shifting. Although I also prefer Campy rear shifts
the ultegra/105 shifts fine albeit non-descriptive

Ultegra & 105 rear shifting is finctionally ok but the shifting is so very soft non-descriptor shifting is also something I dont like.
Campagnolo is tactile in feel 100%

But quality wise no comparison IMHO Campy has always been finer in fit & finish. BB's are a perfect example as are brakes & cranks

Even the Alloy Potenza crank while not light is quite beautiful & much higher quality than the 105/ultegra units IMHO

But like Chevy & Ford ...Shimano & Campagnolo have coexisted for a long time. I guess we are lucky to have both & choose what we want.

Vespasianus
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by Vespasianus

I actually have a Ultegra on another bike and it is fine but nothing special in my mind. I have choose to move to Campagnolo for several reasons. Durability and beauty are just two.

Honestly sad to hear about the potenza groupset. Hopefully, they give the centaur a disc option.

smokva
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by smokva

I'm big Campagnolo fan and have their 11 speed stuff on 3 bikes + Bora WTO hubs + Record and Chorus hubs on few wheels.
My conclusion is following...

Campagnlo shifters and their ergonomy are on another level, for me it is so good that I'm building my bikes arround it, it is the only thing that must be there.
So, shifters and derailleurs are must have from Campagnolo Ultrashift range, maybe I could live with Powershift ergonomy, but am not convinced it is of the same quality like Ultrashift.
Ultrshift 2009-2014 SR, R and C were the same, from 2015 Chorus become crap, and from 12 speed I would swear only on SR. I have two friends with 2015 Chorus Ultrashift and their shifters are crap compared to my 2009 Record and 2011 Chorus. They were flappy, changed like crap and even got unscrewed by themselves. I rebuilt them just for them to work, but they never worked like previous ones. Record and SR seem to keep quality and work good even after 2015 model.
Front derailleur is best the one without carbon cage...I made Super Super Record for my self, 2009 SR with Chorus non carbon cage. Rear derailleur, they all work.

Brakes, SR ones with ball bearings are crap and had better luck with plain Veloce. On the other hand Record level direct mount seem to be fantastic.

Crankset, I own 3 set of Ultratorque..2 x Record and one Veloce CT. They all suffer from the same problem. After you press-change bearings few times shaft-bearing connection becomes loose and basically you ducked shaft. On poor material Veloce shaft it even got loose with original bearings, that material is too soft. I sonehow repaired left crank with hard loctite. So don't get anything below Chorus there because shaft material might be problem, also move away from ti shaft. Because of that I have moved away to Shimano crankets where bearings are not pressed onto shaft but are pressed into BB cups, they are "free" on the shaft. With time I also started questioning Hirth joint and preload with wavy washer...overengineerd and complicated.
Plus powermeters are cheaper with shimano cranks ie. Stages RL.
Campagnolo rings tend to last longer, but that's meaningless if you destroy shaft before because bearings are pressed onto it.

Cassette, Campagnolo has better sprocket combinations and better materials which last longer, but price of Shimano cassettes is unrivaled. For long Campagnolo's cheapest 11sp option was 110 Eur Chorus vs 35 Eur Shimano 105. Winner is clear, I change cassettes like chains.

Chain...imho in this respect Campagnolo is unrivaled and nothing would make me to use Shimano.

Wheels/Hubs I like simplicity of Campagnolo and prefer it, but can't really can't find any mistake with latest Ultegra or Dura Ace hubs.

So, to conclude...if I was building 11 speed for myself I would choose all Campagnolo with Shimano Cranks and Cassette.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk



robertbb
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

What would you do when your Shimano crank snaps though?

(Also totally disagree on Chorus 2015+ becoming "crap").

Totally agree on Campy chains and cassettes though - they are unrivalled in quality and in my view are worth the extra expense.

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Miller
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Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

I've had plenty of UT chainsets over the years. I've replaced bearings a few times, as expected, but no issues with bearings being loose or axles wearing out. What's difficult about the hirth joint? It's one bolt, do it up tight and forget about it.

Unniti
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by Unniti

Based on my experience the Campy cassettes last forever. You can chuck them when you change chains but that's just throwing money down the drain. And I can't say I share the experience with 2015 Chorus levers feeling cheap or the UT bearing issues.

talltales
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by talltales

bjarnetv wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:16 pm
Well, i havent tried potenza, but the only real difference between 105 and ultegra is the weight and finish quality, and just looking at the weight specs and photos, potenza seems closer to 105 then ultegra IMO.
finding weight specs is always difficult, but to me it seems rimbrake r8000 weighs 2272g, r7000 2453g while potenza is 2.339g (components only)

Sure, some say the ergonomics are good, but if you can't try it before you buy, is it really worth the gamble for people who are used to shimano?

Now if they had managed to make the groupset actually good looking, more people might have been tempted to switch over ;)
That really isnt true. Sure, the finish is better, but there are saveral little differences that you may appreciate. For instance different cables, better bearings in the jockey wheels, more cog carriers in the cassette, more eleborate coating of the chain, different design of the chain rings, etc. It all adds up to a better and more expensive group. Im sure the same can be said about Ultegra vs DA. - Same basic design but more refinement.

by Weenie


bjarnetv
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Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:08 pm

by bjarnetv

yeah, i know there are a lot of tiny little things differentiating the ultegra and 105, but in practice, the operation and reliability of the two should be pretty much identical.
DA uses even better materials and construction, so it should last even longer (i have a 7200 EX, 7410, two 7800 and one r9000 equipped bike, and they all perform flawlessly still)

I no longer own a R8000 equipped bike, but the groupset really impressed me when i owned it, and the finish and crispness of the mouldings was in some ways better then my R9000 group, though they differ so much in style that they are difficult to compare.
i did not have a ultegra crank though, so cant comment on that.
(i had the beautifull but flawed cannondale SISL spidering, and i learned to hate its fragile aluminium axle and crankarm fixing bolt)

As far as tactility goes, the r9000 does change gear with a lot more gusto and loud clunking, so for people who hate the whispy modern shimano shift, there is always the older groups ;)

I do want to try out campa though, so i'll probably pick up a used higher tier rim-brake group one day to try, just out of curiosity.
The winters are so long over here, so stripping and rebuilding bikes with different components just for the sake of it has turned into a winter tradition.

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