2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.05kg w/ custom wheelset

Who are you (no off-topic talk please)

Moderators: MrCurrieinahurry, Moderator Team

Post Reply
justRideIt
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:10 am
Location: Germany

by justRideIt

After riding a 2015 rim-brake Canyon Aeroad CF SLX with Ultegra Di2 for 25.000km, the itch for a new roadbike came up.

The Aeroad is a fast bike, especially when burning kilometers on the flat, but it rides quite harshly and with its deep section aero wheels, it holds higher speeds really well, sounds awesome upwards of 40 kph, but it's not snappy or lively uphill.
It’s no slouch, but the mountains are not home territory. Kinda feels like dragging the bike up the hill behind you.
My rim-brake Aeroad in size XS sits at 7.1kg ready to ride.
Zipp808_1.JPG
So with the new roadbike the goals were
- more comfort for longer days in the saddle - more upright (no slammed stem :roll: ) & filtering out all those constant “microvibrations”.
- disc brakes
- power meter for training & for Gran Fondo pacing
- weight: sub 6.5 kg - every additional gram below 6.5 kg is a nice bonus

I consciously opt for the weight penalty coming with disc brakes for future proofing, for not destroying my rims by braking on their surface and for superior brake performance… and I think disc brakes look rad.

Overall, I want to build the bike to be a comfortable mountain goat for longer days (> 100 km) in the saddle.

The Specialized Roubaix was out of the picture, since I wanted a pure racer with clean lines.
Waiting for Tarmac SL7 was also out of the picture, since
- I got a good offer and good consulting on the SL6 from my LBS
- I have the Gran Fondo La Marmotte Alpes coming up in July 2020 and want to start training as early as possible in 2020 for the Col du Télégraphe, Galibier and Alpe d’Huez and >5.000 km of climbing.

My choice for Tarmac SL6 was highly inspired by these weightweenies:

@Imaking: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=158383
@Rich_W: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154093

Many thanks to them and all of you guys… many decisions have been made with input from WW community :)

Here is the current build list - changes are planned, I will keep this thread updated.

Frame: S-Works Tarmac Disc SL6 (Size 52, SATIN CARBON/TARMAC BLACK/CLEAN)
Seatpost: S-Works Pavé (zero offset, cut down by ca. 100mm)
Wheelset: Roval CLX 50 Disc (claimed 1415g)
Tires: Vittoria Corsa Speed 2.0 Tubeless Ready Graphene (tubeless setup) (235g each w/o sealant)
Handlebar: 3T Superergo LTD (40cm) (165g)
Stem: Extralite HyperStem 90mm (73g)
Bartape: Zipp Service Course
Saddle: Specialized S-Works Romin EVO (134g)
Groupset: Shimano Dura Ace R9170
Cassette: SRAM HG-1190 (11-30t) (185g)
Chain: Dura Ace CN-HG 901
Crankset: S-Works Power Crank incl. power meter (440g)
Chainrings: Praxis Works 50/34 (134g)
Brakes: Dura Ace BR-R9170 hydraulic disc
Brake Discs Front & Rear: Shimano XTR (140mm front and rear) (95g each incl. lockring)
Pedals: Shimano Dura Ace PD-R9100 (235g w/o cleats)
Bottle Cages: CarbonWorks (Version 2.1) (19g for both incl. 4 bolts)
Computer Mount: Garmin Aero Mount (28g)

Currently sitting at 6.45kg ready to ride (incl. pedals, bottle cages, garmin mount) - goal achieved :beerchug:

The bike feels incredible, especially when its nose points uphill.
On the climbs compared to the Aeroad, the Tarmac goes forward underneath / in between the legs… where the Aeroad feels like being dragged behind me… hard to put in words, but I’m sure you understand.
Also the Tarmac picks up speed more willingly and it it so much more comfortable, esp. with the tubeless setup and running around 48 PSI... it just glides over the tarmac.


IMG_1132.JPEG
IMG_1136.JPEG
IMG_1139.JPEG
IMG_1159.JPEG
IMG_1156.JPEG
Last edited by justRideIt on Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:04 am, edited 14 times in total.
2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.35-ish kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=159454

justRideIt
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:10 am
Location: Germany

by justRideIt

For this being my first roadbike with a focus on weight… instead of calling it a day and enjoying the magnificent ride, I’ve now tasted blood, crunched some numbers and I want more.
This weightweenie thing is quite addictive, and expensive… sounds like a habit :D
#justCannotHelpIt


So I’ll drop some more weight at the obvious spots and have the following things coming up:

1) Custom Built Wheelset matching my body type and riding style - should come in at under ~1.150g

My weight is 64kg and intended use is for Gran Fondos… so no sprinting north of 1.000W.
The wheelset should be both stiff enough but also provide comfort for hours in the saddle.
The build is very similar to the new Tune Schwarzbrenner Skyline 20, which were introduced at Eurobike 2019 and retail at ~3.000 EUR.
https://www.tune.de/laufraeder/schwarzb ... yline-disc

With my intended use I opted for a custom build and discussed all options, advantages and disadvantages with a renowned German wheelbuilder.
We decided for 24/24 spokes front and rear (instead of Tune's 28/28, which has to suit to riders up to 90kg).
The wheelset is already built and at my home in Germany, but I am currently on business travel in the USA and will set them up as soon as I’m back home.

Wheelset components 2) Seatpost
by Darimo: custom built to 280mm, 3k finish, logos all blacked out.
Already ordered, lead time 5-6 weeks.
http://darimo.eu/en/darimo-t1-loop-seat ... -not-round

3) Garmin Computer Frontmount
Alpitude Stelvio for HyperStem.
https://alpitude.cc/shop/stelvio-carbon ... em-holder/


Conservative Weight Saving Calculations for 1, 2, 3

1) Roval CLX 50 claimed weight for wheelset @ 1.415g,
XTR 140mm rotors each weigh 95g incl. lockring.
Additional 10g for 12 Ashima bolts for the rotors.

Savings at wheelset: 1.415g - 1.140g = 275g
Savings at rotors: 2x 140mm + 12 bolts @ 10g: 2 * (95g - 65g) - 10g = 50g
Savings with shorter tubeless valves and no valve extensions: ~5g.
The Schwalbe Pro One TT are 15g lighter each comp. to Vittoria Corsa Speed 2.0 Graphe: ~30g.


Everything else assumed to be equal (tubeless tape, tire sealant, ...)
So with the wheelset and rotors I expect savings around 275g + 50g + 5g + 30g = 360g.


2) With the Darimo seatpost I expect savings compared to cut S-Works Pavé seatpost of 175g - 90g = 85g

3) With the Alpitude computer mount I expect savings of 28g - 15g = 13g

So with wheelset, seatpost, computer mount -> weight should come down an additional (360+85+13)g = 458g.


Concern: How reliable is the scale I’m using to weigh the bike?
I use it regularly for travel. At the airport, it matches exactly to the airport’s suitcase scales to the first decimal point (e.g. packed my suitcase to the allowed 20.0kg on the dot for check-in luggage, which matches exactly to multiple airport scales).
It is made by ETEKCITY, which many on this forum use to weigh their components.

I will keep this thread updated once the parts arrive and I slapped them on the bike.
Last edited by justRideIt on Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:49 pm, edited 7 times in total.
2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.35-ish kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=159454

by Weenie


Squashednuts
Posts: 561
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:12 am
Location: Christchurch New Zealand

by Squashednuts

justRideIt wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:32 pm
For this being my first roadbike with a focus on weight… instead of calling it a day and enjoying the magnificent ride, I’ve now tasted blood, crunched some numbers and I want more.
This weightweenie thing is quite addictive, and expensive… sounds like a habit :D
#justCannotHelpIt


So I’ll drop some more weight at the obvious spots...
:welcome:
Nice bike

If you’re keen to drop weight you could look at bar tape
deda traforato tape will save you about 40g, some saving for little expense
Berk saddles are about 100g, 30ish grams for a few €

Saving weight is incremental, few grams here & a few more there, it all adds up...but as you say can be expensive
Building Spec Allez

Sold
Fuji SL 5.5kg viewtopic.php?f=10&t=157704

Sold -
Izalco Max Disc 6.7kg http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... o+Max+disc

justRideIt
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:10 am
Location: Germany

by justRideIt

Thanks Squashednuts, I'm open to additional inspirations and tips. Once my bartape is done, I'll give this one a shot.

Have thought about a lighter saddle, also the Berks, e.g. am running a Tune Speedneedle on my Cannondale XC hardtail, but the S-Works Romin EVO just fits my butt sooooo well, especially on longer rides :D

Have tried multiple saddles during a bike fitting (although for max 5 minutes each), and the Romin came out on top by far, but with many non-fitting saddles, you know immediately.
2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.35-ish kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=159454

quanmer
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:08 pm

by quanmer

how do you feel of shifting on mixed Shimano/SRAM 11-30t cassette combination? Any drop chain experiences? And you can drop tens of grams by replacing your chain to PYC or PMC. Mcfk saddle is reasonable light and comfortable if you would give it a try.

justRideIt
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:10 am
Location: Germany

by justRideIt

Bike Fit, Frame Size, Stem

Although there are many awesome color choices I went for the most boring one: black... of course for weightweenie purposes.
The Sagan paintjobs look incredible in the flesh, but also would add additional 200g.

I do love the carbon mats shining through under the clear coat though. Looks awesome in the sun:
IMG_1154.jpeg

I've done a Retül bike fitting to determine not only the right frame size, but also the stem length, saddle height etc.
IMG_1091.jpeg
IMG_1071.jpeg

The 52cm fits like a tailor made suit, even down to the recommend 90mm stem.
78477C94-770C-4835-8E0E-EFE53E2F4D1C.jpeg
Compared to the picture above, I could lower the stem by 2.5cm, but intentionally decided to leave the stem up there and prioritize comfort.
As much as I love the slammed look... I love being comfortable on the bike even more.

The custom footbeds are awesome, the interface between foot and pedal, esp. with the fat Dura Ace pedal platform is top notch.
IMG_1068.jpeg
IMG_1075.jpeg
IMG_1067.jpeg
Last edited by justRideIt on Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:11 am, edited 3 times in total.
2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.35-ish kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=159454

justRideIt
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:10 am
Location: Germany

by justRideIt

quanmer wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:26 pm
how do you feel of shifting on mixed Shimano/SRAM 11-30t cassette combination? Any drop chain experiences? And you can drop tens of grams by replacing your chain to PYC or PMC. Mcfk saddle is reasonable light and comfortable if you would give it a try.
Great point you mention!
Thanks for the tip with the PYC/PMC chain.. will consider as soon as my stock Dura Ace chain needs replacement.

Cassette - Dura Ace CS-R9100 vs. SRAM HG1190

Although the shifting performance with the SRAM HG1190 on Dura Ace Rear Derailleur and Dura Ace chain is okay-ish, it is quite noisy and also some sprockets (around 4th to 5th from the top) seem to "resonate" and cause quite some vibration through the frame and handlebars.
My trusted mechanic - who knows his stuff - says he gets much smoother shifting set up with the Dura Ace Rear Derailleur in combination with a Shimano 105 cassette compared to the SRAM HG1190.

To me on a high-end bike like this, the weight savings was just not worthy this compromise in ride and shifting quality.

Switched back to a Dura Ace 11-28 cassette, which comes in at 14g heavier than SRAM 11-30, but it runs much, much smoother and with noticeably better shifting performance.
I'll see how 11-28 climbs with the light wheelset & my fitness level next year and then decide whether to put on the 11-30 teeth for the Gran Fondo.

Front shifting performance was not affected by the rear cassette and works flawlessly with the Praxis Works Chainrings. No dropped chains so far.

Here the weight comparison in between the cassettes:
IMG_1164.jpeg
IMG_1163.jpeg
2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.35-ish kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=159454

quanmer
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:08 pm

by quanmer

Thank you for detail sharing

justRideIt
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:10 am
Location: Germany

by justRideIt

Before the Darimo seatpost arrives at the end of the year (hopefully for christmas :) ) I decided to chop off roughly 50mm from the Pavé seatpost.
Specialized recommends in the manual to have at least 75mm of seatpost reaching into the frame.

The 50mm chop saved me 18g for zero cost... :thumbup:

IMG_1117.jpeg
2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.35-ish kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=159454

bruno2000
Posts: 1082
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:11 pm

by bruno2000

There must be lighter chainrings too which are as strong as the Parixis you have now?

justRideIt
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:10 am
Location: Germany

by justRideIt

bruno2000 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:11 pm
There must be lighter chainrings too which are as strong as the Parixis you have now?

I tried the Extralite OctaRamp in 50/34, but they do not fit above the protruding power meter pod on the right crank arm.
They weigh ca. 30g less.

Imaking uses BOR chainrings in his build, but I cannot get these anymore .

Do you have any recommendation?
2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.35-ish kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=159454

reedplayer
Posts: 643
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:10 am

by reedplayer

Hello,
Bor are nice rings, but do not save more than 7 or 8 gramm towards Praxis, 126 gramm in 50/34, if i remember right.
regards,

Jugi
Posts: 678
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi


justRideIt wrote: The 50mm chop saved me 18g for zero cost... Image
That's a substantial weight save. I've been thinking about chopping my post, but have been slightly wary about creaks developing as a different length of post inside the frame could affect how it copes with rider weight. Anyway, nice to know I most likely have about 20g of extra seatpost as well.

justRideIt
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:10 am
Location: Germany

by justRideIt

Those are the kinds of First World Problems with an S-Works I am really glad to have :mrgreen:
I was not happy with how the cover for internal cable routing looked on the downtube. With all the matte carbon the shiny black alloy piece did not please the eye.
Perfect would be that there was no hole in the downtube at all, since internal cable routing via downtube is not required with wireless (E-Tap) and/or electronic groupset (Di2).
IMG_1146.jpeg
So I purchased a replacement part for approx. 25€ incl. shipping from https://www.hoppcarbonparts.de/ here in Germany.

And along with it came an 80% weight reduction from 5g to 1g (percentage sounds much better than 4grams :beerchug: ).
IMG_1147 (1).jpeg
IMG_1148 (1).jpeg
I was not happy with the fit of the carbon part, there were rather big gaps and it was not sitting flush.
I got in contact with Christian Hopp, who produces the parts.
After sending him my original alloy part, he built a new manufacturing tool and sent me a replacement... which now fits perfectly (the picture below is still the not-so-well-fitting one, do not have a picture of the new better-fitting one... it's just that the gaps are much smaller).
IMG_1150.jpeg
2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.35-ish kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=159454

User avatar
cerro
Posts: 1721
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 2:11 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

by cerro

Awesome, really like those small ww things :)
/jonas l
http://cerrol.wordpress.com (my cyclingblog)

by Weenie


Post Reply