Forever skinny fat?

[mattr]

Not many roadies with a 6 pack (as it doesn't really help) but a fair few XC riders are packing them! (these days a party keg is more my style!)

[KWalker]

I've been skinny fat for a lot of my life. I went from 135, up into the mid 200's weightlifting, then back down as low as 148 racing. Even at 148 and single digit bodyfat I looked less lean than I was. While I do not have a ton of time to put into responses these days, here is my advice:

1. You need to do some weight bearing activity. Mostly for general health (my bone density from riding and losing weight all the time was absolute trash by age 31), but also because part of skinny-fat syndrome comes from not naturally having much muscle mass AND usually having a fairly low metabolic rate. Find something, anything: crossfit, weight-lifting, bodyweight/gymnastic rings, shit even running is probably better than nothing. I personally found rock climbing to be the most enjoyable and it has both a cardiac and muscular component. Strength training also tends to speed up metabolic rate slightly

2. Related to 1, you're going to have to eat a high-er protein diet, likely at the upper end of the 1.6g/kg-1.8g/kg intake for athletes and likely higher than the 2.2g/kg recommended for cutting. Partially to build or hold on to some muscle mass, but also because protein is the most satiating macronutrient, has a high thermic cost, and will make any sort of deficit easier. If you get it from plants you might need a tad more to get the same amino balance.

3. Never take any diet advice from people who treat diet like politics or religion. Don't buy into dogma or dogmatic claims. Building off of 1 and 2 if you're a true skinny fat you are never going to be very muscular. How you look is all a number's game and it's more than the scale. Don't worry about bulking up from 1 and 2 if you can find a diet that works for you. Read a bunch of different opinions and diets and find whatever one is the most sustainable for your liftestyle. Make adequate protein the cornerstone and fill in the other 2 nutrients as you wish. Experiment, but never go ultra high in something unless it's sustainable. There are very few, if any studies in which active athletes are put under caloric restriction and one group loses more than another when protein intakem, caloric intake, and training load are matched. Lots of people will try to claim otherwise, but if you read the citations and research there is ALWAYS a catch or scenario that makes it impossible to generalize that one diet is better than another.

For example- one of my good climbing partners works at an anti-aging lab with a lot of post docs that are doing fasting and ketosis experiments on mice. He is constantly venting about how people, often very credentialed public figures, misinterpret research or over extrapolate findings to humans. Rhonda Patrick is a great example- she often reports on research from fields that she has no firsthand expertise, but sounds really smart (and is really knowledgeable about her own areas) and has misquoted his research several times. Or you go read a study and find that it showed a huge difference in some elderly, insulin resistant, sedentary population or the control was actually terrible.

The "best" diets for weight loss all seem to have a high protein component. And by best I mean diets that maintain what little muscle mass you have AND show an even or greater loss of body fat. If you lose 10lbs and half is muscle, you will still look skinny fat. If you lose 5lbs, but only because you gained 5lbs of muscle and lost 10lbs of fat you will look far less skinny fat.

5. Just riding more is a piss poor way to lose weight unless the only thing you can do is ride. Protein turnover rates are higher during fasted endurance exercise and studies that compare fasted to fed training and fat oxidation from adipose tissue show no net difference across a day (usually you burn more fat during the initial part of exercise from blood lipids, but also more amino acids and after the ride end it ends up balancing out pretty well). Also, a ton of endurance exercise plus a caloric deficit is a great way to spike a lot of catabolic hormones. It will also increase relative feelings of hunger when in a deficit. Lastly, it's not *f##k* sustainable. You cannot rely on your riding volume for health and well-being. It must compliment your lifestyle and body comp, not determine it. Have you ever seen a cyclist with a really good body comp and balance of health, mobility, and musculature? Most pros resemble drug addicts and snap bones whenever they fall. There's zero advantage for the general population.

6. If you're not racing, you should be focused on good overall habits. If you are racing, you should still be focused on good habits, but occasionally employ more drastic efforts only if they are necessary. This reinforces everything above. If all you do is ride chances are you will not be very mobile or balanced and at some point you will suffer some sort of injury or pain because of it. Doing whatever strength training or weight bearing activity you can will go a long way to preventing this. Same with finding a diet that works for you. Keto is the current rage, some people love fasting, but if eating 3 meals a day works from you and they're from a well-rounded range of whole foods, then that's what matters FOR YOU.

7. Try tracking your intake for 2 weeks. It will suck. Measure and weigh everything you can. Get an idea of what you even eat now. It will almost always surprise you. You have to learn proper portion control.

8. Never be in too big of a deficit. Fat loss doesn't take any tricks. If you're a few hundred calories shy on a ride day, that's fine. If you strength train and are a few hundred over, that's also fine. Studies on athletes and food intake show that athletes that habitually limit intake often have higher bodyfat percentages than those that do not. They're also athletes who often have teams of people telling them what to do and when OR are very used to what is required to do their work. You will likely end up skinnier, but still skinny fat if you are truly skinny fat to start with. Others tend to lean out really well and preserve mass, but this is not a hallmark trait of a true skinny fat.

9. Most cyclists eat way too much on the bike. If you're not riding a lot of long rides, high weekly volume, or super intense rides without adequate overall dietary CHO, you don't need to slam so much food. Maybe some drink mix per the standard Skratch/Osmo guidelines. If your macronutrients are somewhat balanced throughout a day or week you do not need convoluted post workout shakes or other strategies. You aren't churning through enough glycogen to matter.

Kinda deserted my own thread here for a bit but thanks a lot for taking the time to write that.

I have often found that the answer to all my problems have been going the opposite direction of what I'm doing.
When I was 208lbs overweight, I told myself I'm unhappy and have no room right now to worry about exercise. I then bit the bullet and went into cycling. Lost the weight and got down to where I am right now.

The whole body composition thing is shaping up to be the same kind of issue. I keep telling myself I hate the gym and look for answers elsewhere. But I think I realize more and more that avoiding it got me here.

There's a reason my legs are much leaner than rest of my body. Cause I use them. My upperbody however is just being carried around. I barely lift anything in my life or use my core in any kind of activity. I either bike or sit around.

So I think I really need to find my cycling equivalent for upperbody. Something I can be really passionate about and will help me on the bike too inevitably.

I'm sure I can do more in nutrition too. I really don't think I over eat but when and what I eat might need some work.

Thanks again!

Indoor bouldering or rock climbing is great (I am biased). The sport emphasizes power to weight and you won't put on non functional mass. You will probably gain muscle in some of your back, chest, core, and shoulders at first, but after the noob period wears off most people just get lean and dense. Also, it offers a ton of variability in terms of workouts and types of stuff you can do. It's aerobic, anaerobic, basically covers everything. 1-2hrs 2x/week is enough for a very long time for most until your tendons adapt.

[mattr]

I've been looking at making a little bouldering corner for the kids and the more i do the research, the more i think i might make it adult size...........

[gurk700]

I'm signing up for a climbing gym tomorrow with my girlfriend. Here we go!
Goal is 2x a week on my off days. Hoping for finally getting rid of skinny fat look.

[gurk700]

Ok... Sooooooo... this is probably the best decision I've made since I picked up cycling in 2015.
I went to the climbing gym I signed up for with my girlfriend tonight. This was exactly what I was looking for.
I'm challenged by it. I have a lot of fun doing it. My upper body is DESTROYED in the best way possible. Gonna hurt like hell tomorrow.
I can NOT wait to go back.

Plan is to do it on my off days from the bike but honestly, I can see right away how I'll be tempted in rainy days to just climb instead of riding.
If I keep at this, I'm pretty sure my body will eventually have to change its composition a bit. Can take years but 4 years gone like NOTHING while riding. I'm sure same will happen while climbing too.

Thanks for all the input guys.

[onemanpeloton]

Ok... Sooooooo... this is probably the best decision I've made since I picked up cycling in 2015.
I went to the climbing gym I signed up for with my girlfriend tonight. This was exactly what I was looking for.
I'm challenged by it. I have a lot of fun doing it. My upper body is DESTROYED in the best way possible. Gonna hurt like hell tomorrow.
I can NOT wait to go back.

Plan is to do it on my off days from the bike but honestly, I can see right away how I'll be tempted in rainy days to just climb instead of riding.
If I keep at this, I'm pretty sure my body will eventually have to change its composition a bit. Can take years but 4 years gone like NOTHING while riding. I'm sure same will happen while climbing too.

Thanks for all the input guys.

I do this too. It's my secret to FUN strength work

[KWalker]

The climbing addiction hits hard! Have fun with it and keep things variable so you maintain excitement for the sensations of the activities you love, not feeling obligated or trapped.

[WinterRider]

At 53

53... LOL.. wait.. till you get OLD.

One sees lots of skinny fats riding around... LSS.. too many carbs--ie: too many insulin units per week/month/yr, no resistance exercise, eating too much towards end of day... and genetics.

Just Do It. Find a way to work it all...

Try weeding a garden... I know .. grins . Just DO THAT for a couple hours w intensity/pace. Put that silly electronic gadget one that tracks HR....

[gurk700]

Looks like I already picked up my first injury, lol. It's my fingers.
I think it's a pulley strain rather than a rupture. Already took a week break. I'll take it easy and do super easy climbs with plenty of hand grips starting tomorrow.

AND REMEMBER TO WARM UP BEFORE CLIMBING.

But yeah. It's highly addictive. I find it hard to quit and go back home. I only do so cause I'm TOAST Feels so good to actually feel sore / super tired after exercise. Even after interval training I don't get THAT tired after bike rides anymore. Even after a 4 hour ride next day I'm usually feeling good. Day after I climb for 1.5hrs or so I'm DEAD. I missed that feeling!

[BitGid]

Drinking a ton of water, create own food planner, ( such as https://onplanners.com/planners/best-fo ... thy-eating), and some light exercise every other day. That's how I lost 20-30 lbs in a few months. But I think I have a pretty high metabolism. I just gained a ton of weight one Summer from over-eating and lack of exercise.

[gurk700]

Drinking a ton of water, create own food planner, ( such as https://onplanners.com/planners/best-fo ... thy-eating), and some light exercise every other day. That's how I lost 20-30 lbs in a few months. But I think I have a pretty high metabolism. I just gained a ton of weight one Summer from over-eating and lack of exercise.

Nice! Skinny fat isn't about just weight loss though. I've lost 60lbs since I started cycling. But my body comp is still pretty fat heavy.
I have started rock climbing to fight this but unfortunately a bike crash 3 weeks ago left me with a shoulder injury. Thankfully can still ride but climbing is out of question at the moment.
Can not wait to get back into it. Still go to the climbing gym even just to watch my gf climb.

[Chiva]

Extreme results call for extreme measures. Why are elite pro cyclists so low body fat? They basically starve themselves to get to that point. They go for 6 hours rides with little to eat. Come home and then eat a salad, etc. They have a lot of eating disorders. Not saying that this is either good or bad. It just is difficult to do mentally for the average Joe. Now, if you're living/livelihood depends upon you weighting a certain amount of weight so that you can climb a mountain pass faster, you would do whatever it takes.

[gurk700]

Extreme results call for extreme measures. Why are elite pro cyclists so low body fat? They basically starve themselves to get to that point. They go for 6 hours rides with little to eat. Come home and then eat a salad, etc. They have a lot of eating disorders. Not saying that this is either good or bad. It just is difficult to do mentally for the average Joe. Now, if you're living/livelihood depends upon you weighting a certain amount of weight so that you can climb a mountain pass faster, you would do whatever it takes.

Well few months down the line I'm happy to tell you that it doesn't (so far anyway) take much extreme at all.
Or maybe it depends what is seen as extreme for each person.

With the shoulder injury and not being able to rock climb, I've once again turned my attention back to food.

I'm already vegan so eat 100% plant based but now I've cut every single junk food from my diet. My meals are all whole foods very high carb. Usually 80% 10% 10% for carb fat protein in proportion. Fats are all healthy fats from nuts or avocado.

Result is within 2 weeks. Yep... Only 2 weeks. I'm already down to 147 which is the lowest I've seen in my adult life. My power is high as I've ever seen. Weirdly I can hold high cadence for longer. I'm gonna see how low I get keeping everything the same (I still eat 1.8k to 2k calories per day and my deficit comes from what i burn on the bike) without losing power.

PRing (after 5 years and dozens of tries in the past years) on every major hill in Bay Area due to my weight loss. It's a great feeling. Down to 4-5% in 10k-14k people segments from ~10% percentile on strava. What's crazy is even my PR attempts aren't exhausting me as much as they used to in the end. I feel full of energy.

I do feel hungry a lot more often. But when I do I grab a banana or an apple instead of a small bag of chips or whatever junk lying around.
But I accepted the fact that if I'm gonna lose weight, I'm gonna feel a little hungry. I actually weirdly started enjoying that feeling especially in the mornings. Wake up hungry and eat a nice breakfast is the best feeling.

Having said that I don't wanna make myself 100% miserable so ate a vegan cupcake and had a couple beers for my girlfriend's birthday yesterday with 0 guilt.

[wheelbuilder]

Extreme results call for extreme measures. Why are elite pro cyclists so low body fat? They basically starve themselves to get to that point. They go for 6 hours rides with little to eat. Come home and then eat a salad, etc. They have a lot of eating disorders. Not saying that this is either good or bad. It just is difficult to do mentally for the average Joe. Now, if you're living/livelihood depends upon you weighting a certain amount of weight so that you can climb a mountain pass faster, you would do whatever it takes.

Well few months down the line I'm happy to tell you that it doesn't (so far anyway) take much extreme at all.
Or maybe it depends what is seen as extreme for each person.

With the shoulder injury and not being able to rock climb, I've once again turned my attention back to food.

I'm already vegan so eat 100% plant based but now I've cut every single junk food from my diet. My meals are all whole foods very high carb. Usually 80% 10% 10% for carb fat protein in proportion. Fats are all healthy fats from nuts or avocado.

Result is within 2 weeks. Yep... Only 2 weeks. I'm already down to 147 which is the lowest I've seen in my adult life. My power is high as I've ever seen. Weirdly I can hold high cadence for longer. I'm gonna see how low I get keeping everything the same (I still eat 1.8k to 2k calories per day and my deficit comes from what i burn on the bike) without losing power.

PRing (after 5 years and dozens of tries in the past years) on every major hill in Bay Area due to my weight loss. It's a great feeling. Down to 4-5% in 10k-14k people segments from ~10% percentile on strava. What's crazy is even my PR attempts aren't exhausting me as much as they used to in the end. I feel full of energy.

I do feel hungry a lot more often. But when I do I grab a banana or an apple instead of a small bag of chips or whatever junk lying around.
But I accepted the fact that if I'm gonna lose weight, I'm gonna feel a little hungry. I actually weirdly started enjoying that feeling especially in the mornings. Wake up hungry and eat a nice breakfast is the best feeling.

Having said that I don't wanna make myself 100% miserable so ate a vegan cupcake and had a couple beers for my girlfriend's birthday yesterday with 0 guilt.

Nice work man! Congrats. It's that hungry feeling in the evenings that is so hard to combat but pays huge dividends if you can do it. Where in the Bay Area are you? There are a few of us on here.

[gurk700]

Extreme results call for extreme measures. Why are elite pro cyclists so low body fat? They basically starve themselves to get to that point. They go for 6 hours rides with little to eat. Come home and then eat a salad, etc. They have a lot of eating disorders. Not saying that this is either good or bad. It just is difficult to do mentally for the average Joe. Now, if you're living/livelihood depends upon you weighting a certain amount of weight so that you can climb a mountain pass faster, you would do whatever it takes.

Well few months down the line I'm happy to tell you that it doesn't (so far anyway) take much extreme at all.
Or maybe it depends what is seen as extreme for each person.

With the shoulder injury and not being able to rock climb, I've once again turned my attention back to food.

I'm already vegan so eat 100% plant based but now I've cut every single junk food from my diet. My meals are all whole foods very high carb. Usually 80% 10% 10% for carb fat protein in proportion. Fats are all healthy fats from nuts or avocado.

Result is within 2 weeks. Yep... Only 2 weeks. I'm already down to 147 which is the lowest I've seen in my adult life. My power is high as I've ever seen. Weirdly I can hold high cadence for longer. I'm gonna see how low I get keeping everything the same (I still eat 1.8k to 2k calories per day and my deficit comes from what i burn on the bike) without losing power.

PRing (after 5 years and dozens of tries in the past years) on every major hill in Bay Area due to my weight loss. It's a great feeling. Down to 4-5% in 10k-14k people segments from ~10% percentile on strava. What's crazy is even my PR attempts aren't exhausting me as much as they used to in the end. I feel full of energy.

I do feel hungry a lot more often. But when I do I grab a banana or an apple instead of a small bag of chips or whatever junk lying around.
But I accepted the fact that if I'm gonna lose weight, I'm gonna feel a little hungry. I actually weirdly started enjoying that feeling especially in the mornings. Wake up hungry and eat a nice breakfast is the best feeling.

Having said that I don't wanna make myself 100% miserable so ate a vegan cupcake and had a couple beers for my girlfriend's birthday yesterday with 0 guilt.

Nice work man! Congrats. It's that hungry feeling in the evenings that is so hard to combat but pays huge dividends if you can do it. Where in the Bay Area are you? There are a few of us on here.

It really is and it took me a while to switch my perspective on this. I used to think "oh i feel hungry, clearly i need to eat" which is true if you wanna maintain weight. Also it's very easy to over eat with that feeling. Now I see it for what it is. I'm progressing on losing weight.

I'm in Belmont. Just South of San Mateo. Yeah I've been a lot of Bay Area riders on the forum!