Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
rollinslow
Posts: 375
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:25 am

by rollinslow

Stendhal wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:33 pm
rollinslow wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:19 pm
I still can't get over the coin batteries in the etap shifters. Can throw that in the landfill along with the power meter and crank when you use it up. The disposable and incompatible world of SRAM components goes against everything I like as a cyclist.

Shimano will crush SRAM with the next gen like it already has.
Then you have a broader issue with all technology that uses batteries.

Shimano did not crush SRAM on mechanical shifting, nor on eTap generation one. Why would it do so now?
No issue with batteries, just moved on to living in the 21st century. The 90's want their coin batteries back. CR2022 was my fav back then. I prefer Li now. I'm pretty sure SRAM blew it completely with etap axs. 11spd etap was a great initial idea minus the coin batteries and I would actually buy it today if I could find it around here.

In all seriousness it's just entertaining to pick on high end gear. Enjoy if you have it.
Moots Vamoots RSL (2019)-Dura Ace 9100
Cervelo S1 (2010)-Super Record 12 (viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161577)
Kestrel RT700 (2008)-Dura Ace 9000
Mosaic GT-1 (2020)-in build queue

by Weenie


spdntrxi
Posts: 3900
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

Stendhal wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:44 pm


The benefit in not needing a bike designed to accommodate extra cabling is continuous.
The benefit in not needing a junction box, some of which are still held by ugly zip ties, is continuous.
The benefit in not carrying the extra weight of two cables (housing, wires) is continuous. This is Weight Weenies, after all :D
- 99% bikes are ok with that, I hope you are aware.
- lots of bikes these days have area in the frame for junction boxes... and there is always the handlebar end
- oh they are so heavy ? when you look at complete system weight both weigh in very close...depending on setup Di2 can exactly be lighter dispite all the HEAVY wires...

I've ridden both extensively... I like both .... but wireless is not a "major" advantage.. it's just sounds nice.
2019 BMC TM01 Road UCI config 7.36kg

aeroisnteverything
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

The weight disadvantage of wiring is easily overcome by not having to provide separate housing and connection points for rechargeable batteries in the derailleurs, plus separate coin cells in each hood.

g32ecs
Posts: 707
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:50 am

by g32ecs

When does Shimano usually announce the DA groupsets or seen in the wild? During the Australian races?

rollinslow
Posts: 375
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:25 am

by rollinslow

Can someone explain the patent issue for if Shimano were to go wireless? Couldn't there be an alternative but still wireless format that wouldn't infringe?
Moots Vamoots RSL (2019)-Dura Ace 9100
Cervelo S1 (2010)-Super Record 12 (viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161577)
Kestrel RT700 (2008)-Dura Ace 9000
Mosaic GT-1 (2020)-in build queue

Nefarious86
Moderator
Posts: 3552
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 4:57 am
Contact:

by Nefarious86

rollinslow wrote:Can someone explain the patent issue for if Shimano were to go wireless? Couldn't there be an alternative but still wireless format that wouldn't infringe?
Batteries mounted on mechs.

And given the choice I will avoid wierless as long as possible.

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk


Using Tapatalk

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2436
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

g32ecs wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:30 pm
When does Shimano usually announce the DA groupsets or seen in the wild? During the Australian races?
You might start to see some new prototypes being raced during the Spring of 2020 with the official announcement and launch of the new line in late June if Shimano stick to their schedule of late in introducing new DA groups every four years.

g32ecs
Posts: 707
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:50 am

by g32ecs

BdaGhisallo wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:38 pm
g32ecs wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:30 pm
When does Shimano usually announce the DA groupsets or seen in the wild? During the Australian races?
You might start to see some new prototypes being raced during the Spring of 2020 with the official announcement and launch of the new line in late June if Shimano stick to their schedule of late in introducing new DA groups every four years.
Thanks

I thought I was set with SRAM Force AXS when I realized that thing weighs 2.6KGs total. Red is out of the question because of cost.

Im planning a build Spring of 2020 and I have no reason not to believe Shimano will create a sucessor to their current line, so I dont want to commit do a 9170 groupset that'll eventually be "old" when they announce a new one.

My plan now is to either buy a used 9120 groupset or even an Ultegra mech just so I can get by the 2020 season and not spend a lot - NOTHING wrong with the latter, it's just that this is my first bike in 5 yrs and I want everything new and future proofed. It looks like I'll have a 5-7yr cycle with my bikes from now on, so by that I'll be in a generation and a half of whatever tech is out there. FOMO if you must.

rollinslow
Posts: 375
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:25 am

by rollinslow

Nefarious86 wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:27 pm
rollinslow wrote:Can someone explain the patent issue for if Shimano were to go wireless? Couldn't there be an alternative but still wireless format that wouldn't infringe?
Batteries mounted on mechs.

And given the choice I will avoid wierless as long as possible.

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk
I see. Yeah I agree with those sentiments. Hard wired connections just work better.
Moots Vamoots RSL (2019)-Dura Ace 9100
Cervelo S1 (2010)-Super Record 12 (viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161577)
Kestrel RT700 (2008)-Dura Ace 9000
Mosaic GT-1 (2020)-in build queue

DrewXT
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu May 02, 2019 1:21 pm

by DrewXT

Nefarious86 wrote:
rollinslow wrote:Can someone explain the patent issue for if Shimano were to go wireless? Couldn't there be an alternative but still wireless format that wouldn't infringe?
Batteries mounted on mechs.

And given the choice I will avoid wierless as long as possible.

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk
I'd doubt SRAM have patented the concept of mounting the battery on the mech, as design patent isn't related to concept, more the implementation of the concept.

Look at boat engines, every manufacturer has a button on the engine cowling to put the motor up and down, it's only the location on the cowling that changes.

We manufacture 4wd accessories, and our best selling product is patented globally, yet someone in Switzerland is selling a direct copy with one aesthetic change.

We've challenged it with the patent, and the aesthetic change is enough to make it a unique product

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk



Stormtrooper
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:29 pm

by Stormtrooper

I have been running 7900 dura ace group with da 9000 cranks. I figure it was time for a new group set.

I knew I wanted to go electronic and it was between dura ace and SRAM. Cost was the main factor and I looked into upgrading with di 2 while still keeping my 9000 cranks. My bike is 2015 Trek madone 7. Bike is very light with a host of Bontrager xxx parts. I ruled out di2 since I didn't want a junction box under my integrated bar and stem. I couldn't run wires through the bar end junction box since there were no holes in the handlebar.

My goal was as little wires exposed so SRAM etap 11 speed was the obvious choice. I also added a Quarq Dzero power meter with SRAM cranks. Weights are about the same and I'm not concerned about having to charge a battery now and then.

Both groupsets are amazing. Can't go wrong with either one, just that SRAM fit my needs the best.

WorkonSunday
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:39 pm

by WorkonSunday

not di2 specific, but i notice XTR moved away from the complicated fin design. will be interesting to see if dura ace follow suit.
Some say pour 10ml water out of your bottle to save that last bit of the weight. Sorry, i go one step further, i tend to the rider off my bikes. :thumbup:

Nefarious86
Moderator
Posts: 3552
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 4:57 am
Contact:

by Nefarious86

On the brake pads? Non fined pads have been standard on xtr race for a long time.

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

Using Tapatalk

WorkonSunday
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:39 pm

by WorkonSunday

sorry, i mean the rotors.
Some say pour 10ml water out of your bottle to save that last bit of the weight. Sorry, i go one step further, i tend to the rider off my bikes. :thumbup:

raisinberry777
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:09 am

by raisinberry777

g32ecs wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:30 pm
When does Shimano usually announce the DA groupsets or seen in the wild? During the Australian races?
For 9100 it started being spotted around January 2016, before a better leak in Taipei in March 2016 and then official announcement in June 2016. Timeline was similar with Dura Ace 9000 in 2012.

Expect similar here, but replace with 2020, I guess.

by Weenie


Post Reply