SkyPivot——A superlight carbon crankset from China

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
tarmackev
Posts: 501
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:59 pm

by tarmackev

Great thread. Interesting reading.
I love nonseries cranks but I'm always worried about brands without much history or information. However having Philipelevn on here gives me confidence.

Agreed with those that have said the graphics aqre a bit too loud, the design itself should be enough to stand out. I can tell a Campag, Shiamno, SRAM or Cannondale crank at a glance.
I have a figure in my in the UK of £350. That's as high as I would go, if its more than Dura Ace or SRAM Red I'd find it hard to justify. I currently use the 8 arm Cannondale SI crank.

Phipipeleven I hope you keep posting on here, it gives me more confidence in the brand. Plenty of other manufacturers post and its always interesting.

by Weenie


philipeleven
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:01 pm

by philipeleven

It’s busy this days because we are preparing beta samples to local cyclist, so a bit late to answer questions.

come to the pricing problem

First of all, the price we set is base on the production costs and a reasonable distributor profit. I think it’s possible for a chinese company to make high value products and sell it with a reasonable high price, but selling it with premiums will be never possible. It's something for companies from Germany or swiss. It has a similiar manufacture cost like Easton EC90, RF next sl, and specialized power cranks, so it just falls on a similiar retail price. The extra weights saving from those cranksets are something I would considered as ‘competitive edge’. It is the base if it could sell well since those are all well known brands.
Last edited by philipeleven on Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

philipeleven
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:01 pm

by philipeleven

Broady wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:32 pm
It's hard to up prices once established though.
It's always possible to make ‘superlight’ ‘premium’ ‘limited’ versions... :D there is no top for material and design upgrades.

philipeleven
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Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:01 pm

by philipeleven

nickf wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:57 pm
I would think a big factor in pricing especially for a small niche brand is the manufacturing volume. That will surely have an effect on pricing. If he were to put an order into his suppliers for 2000 units maybe the price would come down. Even still I think the price point is jam on. Again if the finished product is delivered with said weight, stiffness, compatibility.
You actually guessing it very accuratly. 2000 units is a number for the factory to work for about a year with one mould and one production line. So it would evidently cheaper with that number. It is why I trying to propagate it beyond chinese market. I sincerely believe that western people are not so obsess to some big brands, but willing to try something new.

dudemanppl
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:09 am

by dudemanppl

I disagree with the lack of 5 bolt spiders. There are still many chainrings (in fact most) made for the 110/130 BCD standard. This along with a 5 bolt PM spider would be a winner.

philipeleven
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:01 pm

by philipeleven

dudemanppl wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:18 pm
I disagree with the lack of 5 bolt spiders. There are still many chainrings (in fact most) made for the 110/130 BCD standard. This along with a 5 bolt PM spider would be a winner.
A temptation to install the 90grams extralite chainring though... :D I do considering it. thks for your advice.

AndreLM
Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:53 pm

by AndreLM

Also, please consider working with 4iiii or Stages on a DUAL-sided version.

I would not consider these PM's as reliable as a P2M spider, but they would make for a true WW crankset/PM.

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Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

dudemanppl wrote:I disagree with the lack of 5 bolt spiders. There are still many chainrings (in fact most) made for the 110/130 BCD standard. This along with a 5 bolt PM spider would be a winner.
Sram 3 bolt interface would cover most big players for a PM spider.

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dudemanppl
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by dudemanppl

AndreLM wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:10 pm
Also, please consider working with 4iiii or Stages on a DUAL-sided version.

I would not consider these PM's as reliable as a P2M spider, but they would make for a true WW crankset/PM.

Enviado de meu SM-G950F usando o Tapatalk
I don't realistically see this happening, but that would be cool.

philipeleven
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:01 pm

by philipeleven

Hexsense wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:15 pm
I know the spindle are 30mm diameter, so it fit both bb30(and PF30) and bb386.
But is there a difference in stiffness when installing in bb386 (wide stance bearing seat) against bb30 mode (narrow stance bearing seat) +spacers?
I assume that all the test was done in bb386 mode, right?
It's a interesting question, but It could be answered simply by FEA...

with 66mm support(BB30/PF30):
right leg: max displacement 8.33mm
微信图片_20191002181728.png
left leg: max displacement 8.88mm
微信图片_20191002181738.png
with 86.5mm support(BB386/BB86)
right leg: max displacement 8.28mm
微信图片_20191002181743.png
left leg: max displacement 8.80mm
微信图片_20191002181746.png
boundary condition is 1800N on the pedal(50mm from the crank leg surface)

the difference is less than 1%...


It also answered that question: will a wider BB provides more stiffness?

no. It is a lie. but bigger diameter of spindle do increase left leg stiffness though.

philipeleven
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:01 pm

by philipeleven

AndreLM wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:10 pm
Also, please consider working with 4iiii or Stages on a DUAL-sided version.

I would not consider these PM's as reliable as a P2M spider, but they would make for a true WW crankset/PM.

Enviado de meu SM-G950F usando o Tapatalk
dudemanppl wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:35 am
AndreLM wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:10 pm
Also, please consider working with 4iiii or Stages on a DUAL-sided version.

I would not consider these PM's as reliable as a P2M spider, but they would make for a true WW crankset/PM.

Enviado de meu SM-G950F usando o Tapatalk
I don't realistically see this happening, but that would be cool.
It is quite impossible indeed. A wide carbon crank tends to bend inward rather than downward under pedal force
微信图片_20191002183413.png
so for those using simple strain gauge solution leg powermeter, the detection value will be extremely small, but pedaling width will have huge impact on the detection value——it means, It will never be accurate.

I also highly doubted those third-party powermeter legs, since they just use a four strain gauges array
微信图片_20191002183559.jpg
in the mean time, shimano powermeters have a thickness modifed crank leg(increase bend downward and decrease bend inward), and a super complex gauge array, which technically can detact every directions of deplacement. They could detact pedaling width, and do proper correction to the value.
微信图片_20191002183609.jpg
Last edited by philipeleven on Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

AndreLM
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:53 pm

by AndreLM

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

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Nautiboy
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:54 am

by Nautiboy

Hi philipeleven, it is admirable for you(or the company) to solicit feedback before finalising on the product and manufacturing it. I have a few highend bikes and i change them every 6-9months with components that i like to test. So, here is my contribution to you...

- Who is your benchmark? I will suggest THM Clavicula. I had SRAM Red carbon (soft and flexes), SWORKS (stiffer) and THM M3 to the latest.... If I want lightweight and stiff, I will only buy THM. So if you can surpass them technically - I will buy yours.
- Pricepoint - It doesn't mean from China is has to be cheap, but reality of branding/value /price ratio will always be there. Being new in the market and to promote sales, the price differential must be there, maybe E$600?
- Finishes/Logo/Naming - Someone already mentioned this and is so true for me, so please pay attention there. For finishes, I find that the latest Campagnolo WTO wheelset carbon finish is the best in the market, you should really take a look at it. It makes ENVE looks like from china.

I love testing gears and work closely with Ridea Taiwan. If you need real world testing or further discussion on distribution - please kindly PM me and we can take it from there.

Have a good day ahead : )

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micky
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by micky

cajer wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:50 am
That's an amazingly low weight for the PM version. How much will it cost? Also can I pick up a set when I'm in Guangzhou in Oct? :D

Also have you considered an aero crank/spider with power meter design?
Let's organise a WW bus trip to GZ this month.

by Weenie


philipeleven
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:01 pm

by philipeleven

micky wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:29 pm
cajer wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:50 am
That's an amazingly low weight for the PM version. How much will it cost? Also can I pick up a set when I'm in Guangzhou in Oct? :D

Also have you considered an aero crank/spider with power meter design?
Let's organise a WW bus trip to GZ this month.
:P

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