2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Ettore wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:48 am
refthimos wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:07 am
How is it that Enve still hasn't tested these to tell us if they are on the approved list for the 4.5 ARs with hookless rims?
Ask ENVE if one can run a Vittoria Corsa Tubeless on their wheels. Nope, they don't support it.

I find that company strange.

It was reported previously by the various media sites that the Corsa TLR tires were approved, just not the the regular clinchers. Do you have some new information refuting this?

Corsa TLR and Corsa Control TLR are listed as compatible with the ENVE SES 4.5 AR wheels.

by Weenie


Ettore
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by Ettore

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:15 am
Ettore wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:48 am
refthimos wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:07 am
How is it that Enve still hasn't tested these to tell us if they are on the approved list for the 4.5 ARs with hookless rims?
Ask ENVE if one can run a Vittoria Corsa Tubeless on their wheels. Nope, they don't support it.

I find that company strange.

It was reported previously by the various media sites that the Corsa TLR tires were approved, just not the the regular clinchers. Do you have some new information refuting this?

Corsa TLR and Corsa Control TLR are listed as compatible with the ENVE SES 4.5 AR wheels.
My bad, it was my confusion.

refthimos
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

Imaking20 wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:09 am
Because they were announced like a month ago?
They’ve been out long enough and they are a serious contender for best “all around racing/training tire” ie not an obscure offering, ENVE is not a small company and has the resources to purchase if it needs to a couple of these tires, and finally there is the rider safety issue if they test and determine these tires incompatible, so I think it’s reasonable by now that ENVE would have run the test.
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 | 6.51kg
SystemSix | 8.01kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8/FFWD Falcon | Roval 321
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

yinzerniner
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Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:54 pm

by yinzerniner

refthimos wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:33 pm
Imaking20 wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:09 am
Because they were announced like a month ago?
They’ve been out long enough and they are a serious contender for best “all around racing/training tire” ie not an obscure offering, ENVE is not a small company and has the resources to purchase if it needs to a couple of these tires, and finally there is the rider safety issue if they test and determine these tires incompatible, so I think it’s reasonable by now that ENVE would have run the test.
So you want what you want, when you want it, no questions asked? Seems completely reasonable.... :roll:

For the "rider safety" they've already put out a list of compatible tires. If you have a set of hookless Enve wheels then use approved tires. If you want to chance your safety with non-approved tires then have at it.

I challenge you to find a single long-term ride review of the 2020 Pro One TLE. There's only a few first ride reports and Schwalbe has only released scants of data on the performance vs competitors.

In the grand scheme of things Enve is a very small company. HED, ZIpp, Campagnolo, Mavic, DT Swiss, Shimano et al are all much larger than Enve and have greater pull in the EU where the ETRTO standard is ratified. Enve has their own standards as to where tire technology should conform to the advancements (or shortcuts) of carbon rim manufacturing, and obviously the other big players have a differing opinion.

At the same time I completely get it. You're paying a premium price for a premium product, and with that comes the expectation of high performance, ease of use and impeccable reliability. Sometimes items with lofty prices meet those lofty expectations, sometimes they don't. Let your wallet do the talking.

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Dan Gerous
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by Dan Gerous

I'd use them on Enve rims, they are vulcanized, 3 plies on the sidewalls, rubber is completely covering the casing material, not a direct contact between the rim's beads and an almost bare cotton casing which seems to be the issue Enve has with certain tires...

refthimos
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

(1) I'm not jumping up out down with outrage that ENVE hasn't yet told us whether the Pro One TLEs are compatible with their hookless rims (e.g. 4.5 AR Disc), but I don't think it's unreasonable that they would have done so by now. I'm curious why they haven't. Not necessarily curious as a means to criticism, but genuinely interested in the reason(s), e.g. do they have the tire? have they commenced any testing? does the testing take an hour, a day, a month?

(2) ENVE isn't all that small a company. In 2012, they announced a $20 million investment in manufacturing facilities that would result in 324 new jobs in Utah, and in 2016 it's reported that Mavic paid $50 million. So ENVE is not the same as bicyclerolling resistance.com, i.e. a one-man-operation.

(3) The Pro One TLEs have been available for a while now. If I can easily get my hands on them, then so can ENVE.

(4) Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that ENVE has a rig where they mount a tire, increase the pressure, and see it it blows off. It seems like the kind of test that wouldn't take weeks and weeks to perform, but again, I don't know if any of us know their protocol.

(5) I wouldn't expect ENVE to prioritize testing for every tire released, but there are certain tires that IMHO should be prioritized over others, e.g. Continental 5000 TLs, Vittoria Corsa TLRs, Specialized Turbo RapidAir, and yes, the Pro One TLEs. Maybe there are one or two I am missing, but these seem to be the current leading contenders for "best all-around racing/training" tires.

(6) With what is likely to be a very popular tire, I would think ENVE would want to prioritize getting this tire on its rig and letting its customers know if it's OK or not.
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 | 6.51kg
SystemSix | 8.01kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8/FFWD Falcon | Roval 321
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

refthimos
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

Dan Gerous wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:50 pm
I'd use them on Enve rims, they are vulcanized, 3 plies on the sidewalls, rubber is completely covering the casing material, not a direct contact between the rim's beads and an almost bare cotton casing which seems to be the issue Enve has with certain tires...
I thought the compatibility with ENVE 4.5 AR Disc rims (and other ENVE hookless rims) was that ENVE has found some tubeless tires are either too loose or will stretch enough that they can be blown off a hookless rim - separate from the issue where some ENVE rims were chewing up the casing and causing tire failures.
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 | 6.51kg
SystemSix | 8.01kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8/FFWD Falcon | Roval 321
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

refthimos wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:34 pm

(5) I wouldn't expect ENVE to prioritize testing for every tire released, but there are certain tires that IMHO should be prioritized over others, e.g. Continental 5000 TLs, Vittoria Corsa TLRs, Specialized Turbo RapidAir, and yes, the Pro One TLEs. Maybe there are one or two I am missing, but these seem to be the current leading contenders for "best all-around racing/training" tires.

(6) With what is likely to be a very popular tire, I would think ENVE would want to prioritize getting this tire on its rig and letting its customers know if it's OK or not.
(5)Conti says no hookless on 5000TL... Enve time saved :)
Which Corsa's... Corsa and Corsa control are already approved.. they dont make speed in 28mm
Forget RapidAir contending for that title...

(6) I have P1 TLEs sitting in a box.. no plans to use them on my 4.5AR however.. but yeah it would be nice to know down the road.
2019 BMC TM01 Road UCI config 7.36kg

refthimos
Posts: 357
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by refthimos

spdntrxi wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:45 pm
(5)Conti says no hookless on 5000TL... Enve time saved :)
Which Corsa's... Corsa and Corsa control are already approved.. they dont make speed in 28mm
Forget RapidAir contending for that title...
Yup, I didn't want to leave out any of the "contenders" that ENVE had already tested. And to the point, it seems like they tested the 5000 TLs pretty soon after they were released.

Right now I think the V1.0 Pro One is the best road tire for the 4.5AR Discs... But assuming the V2.0 TLE version is compatible, it would them take the title. Hence my interest in compatibility.
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 | 6.51kg
SystemSix | 8.01kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8/FFWD Falcon | Roval 321
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

spdntrxi
Posts: 4065
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

refthimos wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:19 pm
spdntrxi wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:45 pm
(5)Conti says no hookless on 5000TL... Enve time saved :)
Which Corsa's... Corsa and Corsa control are already approved.. they dont make speed in 28mm
Forget RapidAir contending for that title...
Yup, I didn't want to leave out any of the "contenders" that ENVE had already tested. And to the point, it seems like they tested the 5000 TLs pretty soon after they were released.

Right now I think the V1.0 Pro One is the best road tire for the 4.5AR Discs... But assuming the V2.0 TLE version is compatible, it would them take the title. Hence my interest in compatibility.
yeah I just pulled my nearly new V1.0 off my 4.5AR (great tire).. since I wanted to start using the rims for gravel duty again...
I dont think they ever had to test the 5000TLs... Conti has do not use on hookless rims on the side of the tire.

My guess is that TLE's will be approved at somepoint (I hope so) Personally I got them for either my CLX50 or Enve5.6... have not decided which to put them on yet. Really interested in the TT tire as well.
2019 BMC TM01 Road UCI config 7.36kg

refthimos
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

Well our timing is good for activity on this thread! The Crr data is out and it looks like the 5000 TL is gonna be the faster tire, at least when you can use it (i.e. on hooked rims).

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... e-tle-2020

PS if Jarno has the time to test and report on this tire, surely ENVE can as well? ;-)
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 | 6.51kg
SystemSix | 8.01kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8/FFWD Falcon | Roval 321
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

refthimos wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:53 pm
Well our timing is good for activity on this thread! The Crr data is out and it looks like the 5000 TL is gonna be the faster tire, at least when you can use it (i.e. on hooked rims).

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... e-tle-2020

PS if Jarno has the time to test and report on this tire, surely ENVE can as well? ;-)

Jarno is testing something completely different that doesn’t have much of time component. ENVE basically needs to test to see if the Schwalbe Pro One TLE beads stretch over time enough to blow off a hookless rim at rated and over rated pressures. It requires more than one tire as well.

My blind guess is that the Pro One TLE will be compatible because the old ones are and also because they conform to the impending road tubeless standard (which is really just UST.)

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:46 pm
refthimos wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:53 pm
Well our timing is good for activity on this thread! The Crr data is out and it looks like the 5000 TL is gonna be the faster tire, at least when you can use it (i.e. on hooked rims).

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... e-tle-2020

PS if Jarno has the time to test and report on this tire, surely ENVE can as well? ;-)

Jarno is testing something completely different that doesn’t have much of time component. ENVE basically needs to test to see if the Schwalbe Pro One TLE beads stretch over time enough to blow off a hookless rim at rated and over rated pressures. It requires more than one tire as well.

My blind guess is that the Pro One TLE will be compatible because the old ones are and also because they conform to the impending road tubeless standard (which is really just UST.)
I thought what was stopping the new ETRTO road tubeless standard from finally be ratified was coming from some companies, including Enve, that want to use hookless rims while the standard proposal says no to hookless rims? If that's the case, Pro Ones conforming to it and UST wouldn't mean they'll be okay...

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Dan Gerous wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:26 pm
I thought what was stopping the new ETRTO road tubeless standard from finally be ratified was coming from some companies, including Enve, that want to use hookless rims while the standard proposal says no to hookless rims? If that's the case, Pro Ones conforming to it and UST wouldn't mean they'll be okay...

It’s been demonstrated that UST tires do in fact work with the ENVE hookless rims. Even if hookless somehow doesn’t get the ETRTO blessing for road tubeless, ENVE can still claim standards based tubeless tires will work on their rims. It’s not like anything will have changed other than posturing.

by Weenie


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Dan Gerous
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by Dan Gerous

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:31 pm
Dan Gerous wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:26 pm
I thought what was stopping the new ETRTO road tubeless standard from finally be ratified was coming from some companies, including Enve, that want to use hookless rims while the standard proposal says no to hookless rims? If that's the case, Pro Ones conforming to it and UST wouldn't mean they'll be okay...

It’s been demonstrated that UST tires do in fact work with the ENVE hookless rims. Even if hookless somehow doesn’t get the ETRTO blessing for road tubeless, ENVE can still claim standards based tubeless tires will work on their rims. It’s not like anything will have changed other than posturing.
True.

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