S-Works Tarmac SL6 rim brake or not?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Jack65
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:40 pm

by Jack65

Hi,

I'm negotiating conditions with local cycling club, under which my 15-year old son is going to stay with the club. Most probably we will get budget of around 7-8k USD for the bike. It has to be rim version as club has only rim brake wheels.

Currently he rides Tarmac SL4 Comp UDi2 2016 56cm. He is 180 tall, 90 cm inseam. I recently handed him my Tarmac SL4 Expert 54 cm and he rode one mountain race on it. It seems to fit him better. He noticed, it descends much better. I don't know if it's a matter of size of the bike or full carbon steerer, SL4 Expert has.

We aim to get new bike close to 6,8 kg UCI limit. We can buy S-Works Tarmac SL6 frameset for around 3,5k USD. According to this forum frameset weights around 1150 gram.
It has to be equipped with Shimano Ultegra Di2, which weights around 2200 grams. Costs around 1200 USD
We probably won't change alu PRO LT handlebar 380 mm, he is using. 280 grams. So far it survived all the crashes. Eventually we may change to Specialized Short Reach handlebar, 310 gram as one of few 360 mm options.
Ritchey WCS Carbon stem 110 mm is probably going to stay too. 130 gram if I'm correct
We will need some light and comfortable saddle. Any advice? Currently he rides Spesh Toupe Comp Gel that came with the bike or mine, Spesh Henge Comp. Both quite heave if I'm correct, around 250 grams.
S-Works seatpost that comes with the frame weights probably around 150 gram

Handlebar tape and K-Edge mount probably another 100 grams
Zee Cage x 2 almost another 100

So we have:
1300 frameset with seatpost
2200 groupset
300 handlebar
130 stem
250 saddle
100 tape and Garmin mount
100 bottle cages
= 4380
and some cabling so probably around 4500 plus 260 with Keo 2 Max pedals. Still under 5kg which seems to be very reasonable.

For mountain stages we want to buy FFWD F4R 45mm tubular wheelset weighting 1250 grams on DT Swiss 240s hubs. Costs 1200 USD. And Vittoria Corsa G+ tubulars that proved very well this season, weighting 260 grams each. So 1770 grams plus skewers. Let's say 1900 grams.

We also will probably buy Stages Power Meter and Di2 sprinter shifters.

Any comments would be appreciated.

samarskyrider
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:14 pm
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by samarskyrider

Pretty solid setup!

Here is what I have on my 58cm SL6 to get 7.0kg race weight

SRAM eTap 11spd
DA 9100 dm brakes
3T Arx Team 130/-17 stem
Easton EC90SLX3 42cm handlebar
Zipp 404 Firecrest tubulars w/DA 9000 cassette
Fizik Arione R1 carbon rail saddle
SRM PM on Red22 cranks
DA 9000 pedals

Image

your setup should be spot on 6.8-6.9kg



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by Weenie


Alexandrumarian
Posts: 489
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

samarskyrider wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:53 pm
Here is what I have on my 58cm SL6
Looks good! What is your height and inseam? Thanks

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C36
Posts: 713
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

Rather than the build, your comment on the sizes bring me to the position. Even if he will keep growing up a bit, I would invest in a proper fitting.

Regarding the saddle, it’s really to morphologicaly-specific to say “use this one”. Now if you are spending this amount of money I do hope the LBS allow few saddles to be tested.


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Jack65
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:40 pm

by Jack65

C36 wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:37 pm
Rather than the build, your comment on the sizes bring me to the position. Even if he will keep growing up a bit, I would invest in a proper fitting.

Regarding the saddle, it’s really to morphologicaly-specific to say “use this one”. Now if you are spending this amount of money I do hope the LBS allow few saddles to be tested.


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There is little chance he will grow up. He stopped growing up more than one year ago.

We do bike fitting every year. We will of course do another when we get new bike.

We support local LBS and have very good relations with Specialized, Bontrager and Selle Italia dealers. But there is so many saddles now, it's impossible to try them all.

For time trial we have been advised ISM PN 1.1 and Bontrager Hilo. Tested both and ISM won. So we have TT saddle sorted. But road race not yet.

yinzerniner
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:54 pm

by yinzerniner

Jack65 wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:25 pm
C36 wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:37 pm
Rather than the build, your comment on the sizes bring me to the position. Even if he will keep growing up a bit, I would invest in a proper fitting.

Regarding the saddle, it’s really to morphologicaly-specific to say “use this one”. Now if you are spending this amount of money I do hope the LBS allow few saddles to be tested.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
There is little chance he will grow up. He stopped growing up more than one year ago.

We do bike fitting every year. We will of course do another when we get new bike.

We support local LBS and have very good relations with Specialized, Bontrager and Selle Italia dealers. But there is so many saddles now, it's impossible to try them all.

For time trial we have been advised ISM PN 1.1 and Bontrager Hilo. Tested both and ISM won. So we have TT saddle sorted. But road race not yet.
If you have a good relationship with your Specialized dealer then they have a 30 days no question asked return policy for saddles. Pretty sure Bontrager is the same too, and with the wide range of shapes and styles you'll have to be able to get a saddle that fits.

If all else fails, then you can get a custom one made based on the shape that was closest to perfect.

As for the weight - getting to the UCI with an S-Works Tarmac rim can easily be done at way below your budget as long as you're willing to shave off a few items.
-Go carbon on the handlebars - newer models are just as strong and impact resistant as alloy, especailly at the smaller sizes. 38cm carbon bars weight at most 190g, which is between 70-110g below your current outlay.
-Also - 120g for skewers? That seems awfully high. Get some large cam titanium ones and shave off 60g or so.
-100 g for bottle cages - huh? Even King steel ones are 45g or so a piece. Get some Ti or solid Carbon ones at 25g per, or light carbon ones at 20g per.
-Carbon railed saddles should never be above 175g

And boom - 255-305g gone.

Also remember - cabling can get suprisingly heavy if long runs are used.

Jack65
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:40 pm

by Jack65

Specialized Zee Cage II weights 43 gram. So 86 for a pair. They proved to be reliable and we use them on all bikes. I don't see much reason to upgrade them to carbon ones to save 40 grams.
Surely we can get some light skewers.

Can you recommend some impact resistant short reach shallow drop carbon handlebars? Kids in our club used Specialized S-Works Aerofly that never survived one crash. So these were useless.

romanmoser
Posts: 332
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 8:30 pm

by romanmoser

For power meter don't bother with stages
Seriously it's useless for proper training with power
Go with NGeco or the pedals be pro duo

yinzerniner
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:54 pm

by yinzerniner

Jack65 wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:18 pm
Specialized Zee Cage II weights 43 gram. So 86 for a pair. They proved to be reliable and we use them on all bikes. I don't see much reason to upgrade them to carbon ones to save 40 grams.
Surely we can get some light skewers.

Can you recommend some impact resistant short reach shallow drop carbon handlebars? Kids in our club used Specialized S-Works Aerofly that never survived one crash. So these were useless.
I've ridden on carbon Zipp SL 70, Easton EC70, Enve Compact, Ritchey WCS and 3T Ergonova bars - all have been excellent. The 3T's I had seemed to flex the most, but they were also the lightest. Crashed on all of them, and they only showed minimum scraches but zero cracks. Have a set of the Pro Aerobars coming in, will see what they weight and how they feel wrt dampening, stiffness, etc.

Which gen of Aerofly were you on? Heard the first gen that swooped up were wet noodles, but the second gen which are more conservatively designed were much better.

Have never ridden on Deda carbon bars, but the 38cm Zero 100 bars I have are stiffer than stiff. Think they weighted at around 210-215g for alu, which isn't bad.

Jack65
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:40 pm

by Jack65

Thanks yinzerniner
Broken Aerofly came with 2016 Venge. One of our boys has carbon Zipp, some aero version, not sure which model and so far survived his crashes.

@romanmoser
Pedals don't last long unfortunately. My son had 4 crashes this year and 2 broken Look pedals. So I'm looking only at cheap crank power meters. And at this stage of his development we rather need it only to analyze and compare his efforts (mainly time trials) than to do power meter based training. Our friend and advisor is amateur world record holder in 1 hour on track (49,6 km). He has good opinion on Stages. He uses Pioneer himself if I'm correct. I've read DC Rainmaker recommendations and I'm aware of some shortcuts in cheaper power meters.

chiumomo
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 1:38 pm

by chiumomo

IMHO I think you should get a Tarmac Pro SL6 rather than a S Works Tarmac, especially when your son's build is on the limit for a 54cm frame.

Jack65
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:40 pm

by Jack65

chiumomo wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:26 am
IMHO I think you should get a Tarmac Pro SL6 rather than a S Works Tarmac, especially when your son's build is on the limit for a 54cm frame.
I just realized that we can get Pro frameset for around 2200 USD. It might be better option, giving us more space, budgetwise, for other components. There is also psychological effect. If you give him S-Works and Dure Ace at the age of 15 there will be not much left when he moves to U19 category :)

We also have to buy new track bike for him. But our sponsor imports them, so hopefully we may get it cheaply.

chiumomo
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 1:38 pm

by chiumomo

Maybe get a favero assioma too, doesn't cost much more than stages, and you can use it on track bike.

by Weenie


yinzerniner
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:54 pm

by yinzerniner

Jack65 wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:19 am
Thanks yinzerniner
Broken Aerofly came with 2016 Venge. One of our boys has carbon Zipp, some aero version, not sure which model and so far survived his crashes.
Yeah that model came with the aforementioned first-gen Aerofly bars which were known to be noodly. The Zipps are really nice, not the most weightweenie. But as mentioned before if you're looking for strength combined with weight adding 20-30g to the baseline number on bars goes a long way.

And going with the Tarmac Pro frameset is probably the way to go, since S-Works is more for the badge then performance (this is coming from someone who's owned three different S-Works models).
The 10r frameset is supposed to be only 150-200g heavier, and the fork is the same I believe, so using the savings on other places is possible since you're basically taking back $10 per gram.

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