New Specialized Tarmac 2020

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Lugan
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by Lugan

AW84 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:37 pm
If we're talking speed, we reached peak bike a long time ago, and a whole smattering of world records and near-records that still stand dating back to the 1980s back it up. Are shifters and deraillers and gearing and comfort better? Absolutely. But everything we've been fed about aero frames and wheels and handlebars and hidden cables since, perhaps the 1990s, if not the 80s, have been hollow claims.
There could be pharmacological reasons for old records still standing.

As for aero claims, my own data from dozens of rides tells me I am significantly faster on higher speed rides on my aero bike than my more classic bike - both 1-2 years old and sporting otherwise similar new components.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

AW84 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:37 pm

If we're talking speed, we reached peak bike a long time ago, and a whole smattering of world records and near-records that still stand dating back to the 1980s back it up. Are shifters and deraillers and gearing and comfort better? Absolutely. But everything we've been fed about aero frames and wheels and handlebars and hidden cables since, perhaps the 1990s, if not the 80s, have been hollow claims.

I actually own an SL6 Tarmac. Lovely bike. Is it faster than a well-maintained bike from 1989? Not at all, but it looks nice and it rides well. Just because I disagree with Specialized's tactics doesn't make me a grumpy old codger.

But anyway, back on topic.

Back this up with numbers of your own. You can’t escape physics. Round tubes are bad. Frontal area is bad. Aerodynamic drag is the single biggest force working against you at speeds above 10mph.

Even tiny things like the skin thickness of Velotoze have been measured by the guys over at SlowTwitch. Denying science is anti-intellectual.

by Weenie


mag
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by mag

Still, unless you race and you're one of those who expose themselves to the wind or go for the sprints, or ride in groups where you have to take big pulls in the front it doesn't matter much.

Actually when training, it may be even beneficial to ride on somewhat inferior stuff since it may force you to work harder (or not, depends on how you approach it, since if you take the speed out of the equation and focus on your own performance data only, it doesn't matter again :-D).

Back to the topic - the 2020 Tarmac seems to be just the same SL6 thing over again, with some different paint schemes ony. Not interesting much, looking forward to the real thing, probably SL7, to appear next year. Since even th new Roubaix is claimed to be faster than the Tarmac, I think they've got quite a few things to "improve". I just fear they'll go the way of the heavy integration and thus more proprietary parts will be required.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

mag wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:19 pm
Still, unless you race and you're one of those who expose themselves to the wind or go for the sprints, or ride in groups where you have to take big pulls in the front it doesn't matter much.

One or a combination of the above covers a lot of people here, I hope?

Why would I choose a round tubed bike if I don't care for them aesthetically?

I'm just floored that people would claim that a modern semi-aero bike isn't any more slick than a bike from 30 years ago. Just look at the aerodynamic advancements everywhere else for inspiration. 787/A350XWB wing shapes vs 767/A330 wing shapes for example...that's going from aero to more aero. A classically shaped road bike from 1989 was designed with no aero considerations. Cars might be a better example...
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

TobinHatesYou wrote:
mag wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:19 pm
Still, unless you race and you're one of those who expose themselves to the wind or go for the sprints, or ride in groups where you have to take big pulls in the front it doesn't matter much.

One or a combination of the above covers a lot of people here, I hope?

Why would I choose a round tubed bike if I don't care for them aesthetically?
Well that’s a fair point, if you don’t prefer the round tubes aesthetically then by all means, for sure choose something you like the looks of. That’s what I’m sure 99% of people do anyway. I know I’m sure not going to ride anything that I think is ugly, because at the end of the day, the aero part of my enjoyment in riding a bicycle is an irrelevant piece of my overall satisfaction equation. It simply doesn’t make that big a difference, other than on some graph on the Internet. And funny thing about group rides... we all seem to arrive at our destination at the same time, regardless of what we’re all riding.
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Calnago wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:40 pm

And funny thing about group rides... we all seem to arrive at our destination at the same time, regardless of what we’re all riding.

Our Tues/Thurs night rides are no-wait, no-regroup rides and they might start with 30 people, but often half get dropped / take shortcuts, and usually the front group of 5-6 will finish minutes ahead. Our Sat/Sun rides have one regroup, but it's a race to get there and a race to the end if the fast guys feel like animating the ride. There are 2-3 interval segments and 3-4 sprint points. Even beyond these official segments, it gets quite punchy. Hell, most of the local rides are like this whether it's TMR, TNR, Spectrum, AV, PV, the Alviso Practice Crit, SJBC Wednesday Night Crit or something else.

Having a faster bike allows me to hang with the dudes who are stronger than me, pull for them without getting shelled. Sure I could train solo, ride at 15bpm below max and do sweetspot all day, but spirited group rides are way more fun.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Your rides sound no fun at all Image. Still, even when things get a little heated, I really haven’t noticed the actual bikes people are riding to make much of any difference as to who ends up being first. It just doesn’t matter to me... because usually...
Image
but it’s not because of my bike.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Sock3t
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by Sock3t

Calnago wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:40 pm
And funny thing about group rides... we all seem to arrive at our destination at the same time, regardless of what we’re all riding.
Sounds like you're doing the wrong rides. Our Saturday group starts with 100+ and ends with about 15-20 at most.

The first 30 miles the group hemorages at least 20-40% of people, and no, there's no regroups.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Today was a great example. I wheelsucked a guy who seems to be capable of doing >5min@500W. I was in Z4/Z5 just trying to hang onto his draft. He eventually pulled off to take a shortcut home instead of completing the loop, and I rode the last 6 miles solo, finishing 2 minutes ahead of the next two guys. Wheelbuilder was on that ride today...one of the few to complete the loop.

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wheelbuilder
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by wheelbuilder

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:12 am
Today was a great example. I wheelsucked a guy who seems to be capable of doing >5min@500W. I was in Z4/Z5 just trying to hang onto his draft. He eventually pulled off to take a shortcut home instead of completing the loop, and I rode the last 6 miles solo, finishing 2 minutes ahead of the next two guys. Wheelbuilder was on that ride today...one of the few to complete the loop.
Yeah, I was on that ride and completed it but keep in mind I got dropped with extreme prejudice at mile 12 or so. The second group that I was in then started shelling each other and the whole ride was blown apart. I don't even know where 3/4 of the initial ride went it was so violent. lol. Saturday used to be the "B" ride compared to Sunday/Tues/Thurs. These things have gotten faster and faster over the last 2 years or so. Can't stop what's coming.
Never cheer before you know who is winning

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

wheelbuilder wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:36 am

Yeah, I was on that ride and completed it but keep in mind I got dropped with extreme prejudice at mile 12 or so. The second group that I was in then started shelling each other and the whole ride was blown apart. I don't even know where 3/4 of the initial ride went it was so violent. lol. Saturday used to be the "B" ride compared to Sunday/Tues/Thurs. These things have gotten faster and faster over the last 2 years or so. Can't stop what's coming.

Yeah, I saw you come in because I had spent most of that time on the side of the road pondering WTF had just happened. Never seen a club ride ripped to shreds like that before. On the plus side, there obviously wasn't a dangerous sprint finale.

mikemelbrooks
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by mikemelbrooks

In my experience most people get dropped going up hill, rather than when going down. Also it's cool to keep up or drop some one on a older non aero bike.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

mikemelbrooks wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:24 am
In my experience most people get dropped going up hill, rather than when going down. Also it's cool to keep up or drop some one on a older non aero bike.

We went up Sand Hill at 22mph.

Sinicity
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by Sinicity

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:36 am
mikemelbrooks wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:24 am
In my experience most people get dropped going up hill, rather than when going down. Also it's cool to keep up or drop some one on a older non aero bike.

We went up Sand Hill at 22mph.
Ohhhh a Bay Area guy! Tobin do you have a good relationship with a Specialized Bike Shop?

by Weenie


AJS914
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by AJS914

AW84 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:37 pm
But everything we've been fed about aero frames and wheels and handlebars and hidden cables since, perhaps the 1990s, if not the 80s, have been hollow claims.

I actually own an SL6 Tarmac. Lovely bike. Is it faster than a well-maintained bike from 1989? Not at all, but it looks nice and it rides well. Just because I disagree with Specialized's tactics doesn't make me a grumpy old codger.

But anyway, back on topic.
The aero deniers come into yet another topic and derail it.

Your bike from 1989 is not just as fast as a modern aero bike. Your box section 32 hole wheels are not faster than modern wheels. And, your flappy jersey from 1989 is not faster than tight fitting modern kit. Your 30 year old helmet is not as fast as a aero road helmet.

Why are Specialized's tactics offensive? They want to sell new bikes. As was true in 1989, bike makers make a few changes, use some new tubing, put on a fancy paint job, install the latest groupset and try to sell you the latest and greatest. How is it any different?

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