Hill training

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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RocketRacing
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

So i like hills. I was wondering about strapping on a backpack with some weights and doing a few climbs. Then i thought... why not just pedal harder (bigger gear). “Cycling doesn’t get any easier, you just go faster”.

Thoughts?

by Weenie


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LeDuke
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Location: Front Range, CO

by LeDuke

RocketRacing wrote:So i like hills. I was wondering about strapping on a backpack with some weights and doing a few climbs. Then i thought... why not just pedal harder (bigger gear). “Cycling doesn’t get any easier, you just go faster”.

Thoughts?
The amount of power (watts) YOU are capable of producing doesn’t change.

You will just go slower at the same power output.


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bikeboy1tr
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Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

Haha this is WW, don't add weight just go harder. I do a lot of hill repeats through out the year and in the winter I have to ride the beater bike which weighs more so when it's dry and warmer I prefer the light bike so I can climb faster.

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robertbb
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by robertbb

LeDuke wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:54 am
RocketRacing wrote:So i like hills. I was wondering about strapping on a backpack with some weights and doing a few climbs. Then i thought... why not just pedal harder (bigger gear). “Cycling doesn’t get any easier, you just go faster”.

Thoughts?
The amount of power (watts) YOU are capable of producing doesn’t change.

You will just go slower at the same power output.


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But the adaptations caused to muscle fibres by hauling more weight uphill will mean improved ability to go up hill faster.

Or are you saying a dude benchpressing 30kg and the same dude benchpressing 60kg are still only ever putting out the same force? :smartass:

Overload = adaptation. Increased resistance = increased overload.

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LeDuke
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by LeDuke

robertbb wrote:
LeDuke wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:54 am
RocketRacing wrote:So i like hills. I was wondering about strapping on a backpack with some weights and doing a few climbs. Then i thought... why not just pedal harder (bigger gear). “Cycling doesn’t get any easier, you just go faster”.

Thoughts?
The amount of power (watts) YOU are capable of producing doesn’t change.

You will just go slower at the same power output.


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But the adaptations caused to muscle fibres by hauling more weight uphill will mean improved ability to go up hill faster.

Or are you saying a dude benchpressing 30kg and the same dude benchpressing 60kg are still only ever putting out the same force? :smartass:

Overload = adaptation. Increased resistance = increased overload.
Pedaling at 350w is pedaling at 350w. Your body doesn’t magically produced more power than it could 30 seconds ago by stopping, throwing on a backpack and starting again.

Now, if you are talking about maintaining the same speed up a climb with both laden and unladen, yes, that would require more effort. But, again, if your body can do 350w for 20min, you won’t produce more by throwing a backpack on.




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RocketRacing
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by RocketRacing

LeDuke wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:56 am

Pedaling at 350w is pedaling at 350w. Your body doesn’t magically produced more power than it could 30 seconds ago by stopping, throwing on a backpack and starting again.

Now, if you are talking about maintaining the same speed up a climb with both laden and unladen, yes, that would require more effort. But, again, if your body can do 350w for 20min, you won’t produce more by throwing a backpack on.
I think the key is to remember the difference between force and power.

That is why people train for strength/force on a bike by using larger gears. Lower cadence, higher force, vs high cadence low force. The power can be the same in both cases.

It is the old lifting 200lbs over 2 seconds, vs 100lbs over 1 second. Same power. But just because you can lift the 100 in 1s, does not mean you can lift 200lbs.

kgibbo1868
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by kgibbo1868

Adding weight will slow you down. Slowing down will increase time over the climb. 350W is 350W, but increasing weight will increase the length of time of the effort if all else remains the same. If the extra weight forces you to reduce your cadence due to not having enough gears may also change things...
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ParisCarbon
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Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

I wish I had a hill... biggest hill outside of a 2 hour drive is the highway overpass :(
We do have constant 30G50kmh headwinds though to make up for it !!

SilentDrone
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by SilentDrone

I think what OP is looking for is High Intensity Interval Training. Do that going uphill and you’ll see gains. Strapping weights won’t do it. You can get the same increase in strain by changing the gearing ratio.

Look here for more info on HIIT. https://joefrielsblog.com/high-intensit ... -duration/


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adam0bmx0
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Location: Brisbane, AU

by adam0bmx0

I regularly do hill climbs as part of my commuting route and therefore have my backpack on most times.

I usually base my hill climbing attempts on 'time', so trying to achieve the same times i've ridden the climb without at backpack, forces me to push harder.

Although saying that, my PR (achieved with no accesories, water bottle etc) on one particular local climb is only 1 second faster than when I did it with a backpack and all accesories (4xlights, toolkit, water bottle, phone, work clothes etc etc) :P

5:18 @ 460 w VS 5:19 @ 450w

reedplayer
Posts: 536
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:10 am

by reedplayer

adam0bmx0 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:01 am

5:18 @ 460 w VS 5:19 @ 450w
body weight?

robeambro
Posts: 616
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by robeambro

RocketRacing wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:36 am
So i like hills. I was wondering about strapping on a backpack with some weights and doing a few climbs. Then i thought... why not just pedal harder (bigger gear). “Cycling doesn’t get any easier, you just go faster”.

Thoughts?
I'd say that's a bodge.

Just do intervals. Surely you can tailor them to fit your needs (eg more explosive short power output vs longer steady efforts) without the need for a backpack full of rocks. Not to mention that it may make your back hurt, etc. The only advantage of the latter would be the *feeling* of flying once you remove them, but that won't do much for increasing your wattage.

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themidge
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by themidge

Instead of carrying a heavy backpack in order to make the climb harder, couldn't you could just ride in a harder gear? :noidea:

Seems like it would have the same effect whilst not incurring the wrath of the WW gods.

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WinterRider
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by WinterRider

SilentDrone wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:54 am
I think what OP is looking for is High Intensity Interval Training. Do that going uphill and you’ll see gains. Strapping weights won’t do it. You can get the same increase in strain by changing the gearing ratio.

Look here for more info on HIIT. https://joefrielsblog.com/high-intensit ... -duration/


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IMO... adding weight/resistance is a significant training tool.. for the end of that specific exercise duration. Analogy I can think of offhand .. the steroid dudes using chains on their barbells. Raising the bar allows mechanical advantage for the body.. they simply increase resistance which maintains original resistance level.. as the bar raises.

I use the sled in the gym.. goal is those last 10-15 seconds of the push duration which totally is 45-60 seconds. That final zone..if you will.. is when the gains are realized. Albeit this loosely stated here.. think this applies to the OP's thinking. IF that applies to training a cyclist ... :noidea:

If I push the sled morning.. late afternoon rides go very well... if the legs aren't too high on mileage for the last few days.
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demoCRIT
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:04 pm

by demoCRIT

This is pretty basic stuff and there is A TON of free material on web, even some really knowledgable videos on YT
yet after reading some posts here i think that most of cyclists doesn't really understand what "training" actually is and how it can/should be done.

I mean, even on flats your gearing/cadence combination will allow you to put 500W easily and thats more than enough for your intervall training.
Sure hills are nice but trust me - you can do it without them. (flat lander here).

What's your goal? Explosive power? aerobic endurance? "recovery"?


all the best!

by Weenie


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