Is Tubeless really all its cracked up to be?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Dan112
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:14 am

by Dan112

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:52 am
Schwalbe Doc Blue *is* Stan’s... Unless the guy is using Stan’s Race, which is pretty much the same thing just with more coagulants.
Yeah was the race one seemed a lot different to the schwalbe pro1 sealant in his opinion. Either way the race sealant sealed the hole without a dynaplug in the hole. The schwalbe pro1 sealant couldn't seal it with a dynaplug in!

Difference is night and day in his opinion
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tarmackev
Posts: 494
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:59 pm

by tarmackev

I rode Vittoria tubeless about 3 years ago and they were a nightmare.
Ive just pulled the trigger on Mavic Comete UST's, without going back through 17 pages whats the concensus on Mavic tubelss?

by Weenie


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Alexbn921
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by Alexbn921

eric01 wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:07 pm
How often does the sealant need to be refreshed or replaced? Saw one sealant mfg recommend 2-3 months for road tubeless?

Considering going tubless on one wheelset. But because of multiple bikes/wheelsets, I might go a couple weeks before the tubeless one rotates in. Wouldn't be worth it if I only get a handful of rides and have to refresh again
The answer to your question is NO, it is not worth it for an occasional use bike. Now if that bike is your race bike, then it is worth it to put sealant in for a race and then swap it out for a tube after. It is super easy to clean out if you don't let it sit in the tire. My old race mountain bike barley ever gets ridded and I'm going to put tubes in, so my wife can ride it every other month or so.

2-3 months is a good guideline. Some tires like the gp5000 lt are air tight and don't need it as often. Thinner tires than need sealant to stay air tight will dry out faster. Also sealing punctures will use up some of the sealant, sometimes without you even knowing. I've gone 6 months on some thick mountain bike tires. The point is that if you don't check it you won't know when it's dry.

Different sealant, like Stan's race also dries out faster, but works better.

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Alexbn921
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by Alexbn921

tarmackev wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:35 pm
I rode Vittoria tubeless about 3 years ago and they were a nightmare.
Ive just pulled the trigger on Mavic Comete UST's, without going back through 17 pages whats the concensus on Mavic tubelss?
A lot has changed in 3 years. What was so bad about them and where you using the super thin speed or a thicker tire?

tarmackev
Posts: 494
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:59 pm

by tarmackev

Alexbn921 wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:45 pm
tarmackev wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:35 pm
I rode Vittoria tubeless about 3 years ago and they were a nightmare.
Ive just pulled the trigger on Mavic Comete UST's, without going back through 17 pages whats the concensus on Mavic tubelss?
A lot has changed in 3 years. What was so bad about them and where you using the super thin speed or a thicker tire?
The Speed I believe.
Just the amount of flats and only sealing when the tyre had dropped to (40-60)psi. It felt like 20% of rides I was getting a flat. I've switched back to GP4000's and I've had one flat in 18 months on the same roads.
Looking back I was riding with the tyres a little too hard and this effected ride quality.
Cant wait to try the new wheels.

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Stendhal
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Location: Silicon Valley

by Stendhal

groover08 wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:46 am
I’ve only been on tubeless for a few months and this was my first experience. Last Saturday, I ran over a screw with a large head and it lodged in my rear tire. I stopped, gently pulled out the screw and watched in utter astonishment as the sealant closed the puncture within seconds. Yes, seconds. From stopping to riding off again must have been no more than 30 seconds. The tire continues to hold pressure as if nothing happened.

The details are: Schwalbe Pro One tire in 28mm, Orange Seal sealant, 62 psi pressure , Enve 4.5AR disc wheels

I’m never going back to tubes.

This is beginning to be persuasive to this tire Luddite. :D
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jlok
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

tarmackev wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:58 pm
The Speed I believe.
Just the amount of flats and only sealing when the tyre had dropped to (40-60)psi. It felt like 20% of rides I was getting a flat. I've switched back to GP4000's and I've had one flat in 18 months on the same roads.
Looking back I was riding with the tyres a little too hard and this effected ride quality.
Cant wait to try the new wheels.
The Speed is really a TT tire... super thin tread and light weight. It's only normal when it's easier to puncture. Nightmare? No it's great to be used on my TT bike.
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DOUG
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:54 pm

by DOUG

tarmackev wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:58 pm
Alexbn921 wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:45 pm
tarmackev wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:35 pm
I rode Vittoria tubeless about 3 years ago and they were a nightmare.
Ive just pulled the trigger on Mavic Comete UST's, without going back through 17 pages whats the concensus on Mavic tubelss?
A lot has changed in 3 years. What was so bad about them and where you using the super thin speed or a thicker tire?
The Speed I believe.
Just the amount of flats and only sealing when the tyre had dropped to (40-60)psi. It felt like 20% of rides I was getting a flat. I've switched back to GP4000's and I've had one flat in 18 months on the same roads.
Looking back I was riding with the tyres a little too hard and this effected ride quality.
Cant wait to try the new wheels.
The Corsa Speed is a TT specific tyre it has their lightest casing AND thinnest thread. Sure you can use it for everyday riding but thats not really what its designed for. It's little wonder you got a load of punctures.

Dan112
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:14 am

by Dan112

tarmackev wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:58 pm
Alexbn921 wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:45 pm
tarmackev wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:35 pm
I rode Vittoria tubeless about 3 years ago and they were a nightmare.
Ive just pulled the trigger on Mavic Comete UST's, without going back through 17 pages whats the concensus on Mavic tubelss?
A lot has changed in 3 years. What was so bad about them and where you using the super thin speed or a thicker tire?
The Speed I believe.
Just the amount of flats and only sealing when the tyre had dropped to (40-60)psi. It felt like 20% of rides I was getting a flat. I've switched back to GP4000's and I've had one flat in 18 months on the same roads.
Looking back I was riding with the tyres a little too hard and this effected ride quality.
Cant wait to try the new wheels.
I'm in a similar boat never tried tubeless but was on the fence I'm the op on this and from all the advise and things I've learnt, aswel as experiencing tubeless on my freinds bike (we both ride a giant tcr in the same size) I think if you have only flatted once in 18 months... it's like me on the gp4000RS I'm yet to flat on them and have just ticked over 1200 miles on them.

Personally imo I just dont think it's worth it, if u flat a lot, race which it could be the difference of winning or loosing tubeless is probably the way to go.

But for me at the moment it's more expensive as in the tyres then u need a good quality sealant aswel (my buddy found that out the hard way), then there is the issue some tyres can be harder to mount than others depending on your rim and tyre combo I'm on reynold assults for example which I dont believe follow this standard some manufacturers are now using.

Unless I start getting loads of punctures I'll stick with my current set up it's cheaper I paid £32 a tyre, its lighter in most cases at an average weight of 195g a tyre and 50g a tube (on my scales, I no weight isnt everything) and the RR is good as I use a supersonic tube aswel.

But if u flat a lot I get it, when it works it's less hassle. But if you hardly ever flat or are yet to flat i just dont see the point. Other thing I'll add I dont ride loads maybe 2 / 3 times a week. But if u ride daily it would probably make more sense going tubeless aswel.

And as above the corsa speed is a TT tyre its mega thin so you would flat quite often on that.

kevinw
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:49 pm

by kevinw

tarmackev wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:35 pm
I rode Vittoria tubeless about 3 years ago and they were a nightmare.
Ive just pulled the trigger on Mavic Comete UST's, without going back through 17 pages whats the concensus on Mavic tubelss?
My experience with Mavic UST on my kyrium elite UST wheels has been absolutely fantastic - nothing I've tried since has been anywhere near in term of ease of use. For instance if i notice my rear tyre is getting worn I'd think nothing of whipping the tyres off and swapping them over. I've been putting off fitting my new pair of GP5K TLs to my WTO wheels for weeks.

However, when I was looking into the cometes myself I did stumble on a few negative reviews regarding fitting the tyres which surprised me.

The mavic tyres themselves are pretty good. Made my hutchinson and kind of sit between the hutchinson performance and galactik tyres in terms of how they are constructed.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I cant tell the difference bewtween the yskion USt and the hutchinson fusion 5 performance myself. Mavic dont say what they have done differently aparts form bead tollerances. Yet the hutchinson tyres fit fine to UST wheels. In fact fitting is the same, weight the same, they feel the same. Are they the same?

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

What. 25mm Performance TLR are heavier than 25mm Yksion Pro USTs

zefs
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

Probably not the same, had more cuts on the Yksion vs Performance. What I'd like to test is if these tires are actually more comfortable than the 320 tpi Corsa's because the casing is quite supple and stretches by hand, compared to Corsa. I guess it's because they use one piece and the beads are not separated.

kevinw
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:49 pm

by kevinw

I dont think that the mavic wheels have the hardskin puncture protection layer that the performance has but they have more rubber than the galakics.... so they really are half way between the two.

by Weenie


Imaking20
Posts: 2050
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:19 am

by Imaking20

Imaking20 wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:52 pm
It's subjective - just like the majority of everything else we argue about on forums.

FWIW, I've ridden only Veloflex tubulars the last couple years. I just threw some Corsa Control tubs on a set of wheels (because 30mm) and I have been super impressed by the (perception of) grip and the comfort. I'm a pretty handy bike handler, so it's not saying I was lacking any confidence or grip previously - these just feel pretty tremendous.

More relevant to the intention of the thread - I'm actually going to give the Corsa 2.0 TLR a try now. Due to arrive this week while I'm out of town. It's been a few years since I tried tubeless and, at the time, I tried the "best" Schwalbe available and the whole experience was terrible. I'm eager to see if the technology has evolved enough that I can actually enjoy riding this setup tubeless (aiming for more comfort) or if they'll end up on the wife's bike and me sticking with tubular. (To be clear, not entirely ditching tubular regardless of how this experiment shakes out).
After a few rides on a few surface types, my opinion is that tubeless is 'fine.' Definitely not life changing in any aspect. The 25mm Corsa 2.0 TLR measure out to 27mm on my Aeolus XXX 4 and at 65/60 psi, don't feel much different in terms of comfort than my Ravens on Aeolus XXX 6 - I don't quite have the confidence on the sides of the tire with the tubeless though (wouldn't say the same about the Corsa Controls on another set of wheels - which are super confidence inspiring). I also definitely spent longer getting the beads to seat on tubeless than it takes me to glue up tires...

I'm going to ride these for a bit more - but I highly doubt I'll be sticking with them. Even if the experience so far is better than my tubeless experiment from ~5 years ago - it's still no replacement for tubulars.

Now time to try the Corsa 2.0 in a tub :)
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