Is Tubeless really all its cracked up to be?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

You’re not unseating the bead on the road unless you’re going to stick a tube in... reseating the bead is not going to be an issue. On most rides I only carry my dinky minipump and a DynaPlug Racer. Yes, sticking a tube in sucks, but I have flatted 3x in 2.5 years on tubeless, all 3 of which I attribute mostly to tire choice.** Before that I was flatting maybe once a month on average.

Also if I’m inserting a tube into a tubeless tire, it’s going to stay there until I replace the tire or I flat again.

** There have now been three WW posters who suffered bead separation on file tread IRC Formula Pro tubeless tires. The other two flats were sidewall failures on GP5Ks through admittedly really deep potholes.

RocketRacing
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by RocketRacing

SilentDrone wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:15 pm
Here’s an idea ... Let’s ask Hambini to do controlled skid pad testing on all these tires and then post the results. That’s about the only way we’d know which has “more grip”. Of course, that won’t work because people would criticize his results endlessly.

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Hahaha.

by Weenie


mr2scott
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by mr2scott

I've flatted exacly zeros flats this year on tubeless road (minus the exploded wheel where the spokes shot through the rim tape). I have had numerous holes that the selant plugged. I've been on tubeless road since the day the alpha 340 came out and would never go back to tubes.

jlok
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by jlok

Calnago wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:12 pm
And at that point, if it’s stretched enough to be easy to get on then you might have the issue of getting it to seat and seal properly, especially without the use of a compressor. To be honest; the guys I’ve seen who run tubeless and have a puncture on the road that the sealant doesn’t seal, end up faffing about way more than if I’d had to replace a tubular. Especially if sealant’s getting everywhere while they try to stuff a tube in, if they even have one (cuz of course you don’t need a spare tube with tubeless, until you do). I know you guys talk about plugs and worms and stuff, which would be good if they work, but seems folks still like to carry a spare tube just in case in a lot of cases. I think I’d carry both, for the same reason I carry a spare tubular. But it just seems like a lot of hassle compared to a simple nice dry (no sealant) innertube along with a super supple clincher like the SpecialIzed Turbo Cotton. And after the 5 minutes it takes to replace the tube, it’s done. No having to remove a gucky coated tube once you get home and start the entire process all over again. Just kinda waiting for people to start saying... “why are we doing this again?”
If I have to unseat it on the road, it must be the last resort (sealant > plug > and finally tube). Yes it's a hassle to tube the tubeless but it's after two layers of defences. Yea, I always patch the holes at home if sealant and plug don't work. I don't find it a hassle tho. Just like people like to stick tubular tires for the great attributes they're after. If you don't know the tricks it's a hassle. If you are experienced enough it's meh, easy job.
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JerryLook
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by JerryLook

Did you guys see this GCN video about how far you have to lean before you crash?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3I-daSkd62E
2010 Orbea Opal 54cm
5.97kg

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

JerryLook wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:04 am
Did you guys see this GCN video about how far you have to lean before you crash?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3I-daSkd62E

That video is titled "Doesn't Do Science" for a reason. There were zero numbers in that video and the footage didn't even show any good leans. I guarantee a bunch of us leaned a lot more on our Saturday rides.

JerryLook
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by JerryLook

Yeah and it was pretty entertaining. Just like this thread. Carry on :thumbup:
2010 Orbea Opal 54cm
5.97kg

zefs
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by zefs

Calnago wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:12 pm
And at that point, if it’s stretched enough to be easy to get on then you might have the issue of getting it to seat and seal properly, especially without the use of a compressor. To be honest; the guys I’ve seen who run tubeless and have a puncture on the road that the sealant doesn’t seal, end up faffing about way more than if I’d had to replace a tubular. Especially if sealant’s getting everywhere while they try to stuff a tube in, if they even have one (cuz of course you don’t need a spare tube with tubeless, until you do). I know you guys talk about plugs and worms and stuff, which would be good if they work, but seems folks still like to carry a spare tube just in case in a lot of cases. I think I’d carry both, for the same reason I carry a spare tubular. But it just seems like a lot of hassle compared to a simple nice dry (no sealant) innertube along with a super supple clincher like the SpecialIzed Turbo Cotton. And after the 5 minutes it takes to replace the tube, it’s done. No having to remove a gucky coated tube once you get home and start the entire process all over again. Just kinda waiting for people to start saying... “why are we doing this again?”
People that complain about tubeless and punctures were previously using a clincher or tubular with good puncture protection and then switch to the fastest tubeless racing tire despite using a more reinforced tire before (probably). If you use the correct setup (tire, sealant and plugs) you should not get an unfixable puncture with tubeless until the life of the tire is over or you are unlucky and get the puncture that can't be fixed (on any tire setup) that none seems to be getting or it happens once every X years.

If you get a puncture in the first hundred k's of the tire and it needs to be patched at home (after removing the plug) it might be a hassle to repair as you have the sealant in the way (which you can gather with a syringe and re-use which shouldn't take more time than adding a tube) but again maybe the tire is not suited for the conditions or you were unlucky.

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otoman
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by otoman

Aeroisnteverything said it well... stand up on a rainy steep hill and some tires will spin and others won’t as easily. While not something I could give you a hard number about, it is more quantifiable then just how it feels on a dry road under normal riding conditions.

I did a rainy crit several years ago with brand new 23mm Vittoria Rubino Pros pumped up to my usual-at-the-time 105/110 haha. I was definitely slipping the rear wheel in some corners, something I had not done on the Veloflex tires I had been running previously on the same rainy weekday parking lot crit course. Those got relegated to the rollers immediately after that experience. Of course I had to unclench my butt cheeks from around the saddle after the race

So there is some objectivity without holing the old bib shorts thankfully....
Age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill

exFictitiouZ
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by exFictitiouZ

petromyzon wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:25 am
All tubeless setups need a bit of care and feeding - you don't want to let them deflate as they are a pain to re-seat and may leak sealant all over the carpet, and you need to make sure you have adequate sealant in them otherwise there is no point. So I don't like to have more than 1 or 2 wheelsets floating around at any point in time.
I think this depends on the rim/tyre combo? I've just switched to tubeless recently (2-3months) and due to work I had left the bike parking for ~3weeks. One of the tyres went completely flat, yet the bead stayed locked to the bead seat. My combo is Vittoria Corsa 2.0 TLR and Vision Trimax 25KB

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NJCyclist
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by NJCyclist

Calnago wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:12 pm
And at that point, if it’s stretched enough to be easy to get on then you might have the issue of getting it to seat and seal properly, especially without the use of a compressor. To be honest; the guys I’ve seen who run tubeless and have a puncture on the road that the sealant doesn’t seal, end up faffing about way more than if I’d had to replace a tubular. Especially if sealant’s getting everywhere while they try to stuff a tube in, if they even have one (cuz of course you don’t need a spare tube with tubeless, until you do). I know you guys talk about plugs and worms and stuff, which would be good if they work, but seems folks still like to carry a spare tube just in case in a lot of cases. I think I’d carry both, for the same reason I carry a spare tubular. But it just seems like a lot of hassle compared to a simple nice dry (no sealant) innertube along with a super supple clincher like the SpecialIzed Turbo Cotton. And after the 5 minutes it takes to replace the tube, it’s done. No having to remove a gucky coated tube once you get home and start the entire process all over again. Just kinda waiting for people to start saying... “why are we doing this again?”
I'm in this camp - tubeless is great until there's a puncture / problem of a certain size, at which time you hit an infleciton point it becomes more of a pain that either tubed clincher or tubular. This is due to all the goopy sealant and tire / rim circumference interface issues - it's either very difficult to pull of the rim or it's hard to seat. And I agree that for security it's wise to carry a tube. That all being said, in thousands of miles of riding, I've had one such significant tubeless problem.
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ryanw
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by ryanw

If a plug / worms won't fix the puncutre, an inner tube aint gunna be much help IMO.

I've had to boot one tubeless tyre and it wasn't difficult at all. I had hit a pot hole (read deep sea crevasse) and put a 2" gash in the tyre. I used a new £10 note (plastic) to boot the tyre and installed by just unseating one bead.

This whole myth of tyres being impossible to seat is just BS. Everyone on this planet should only use Pedro's levers and then this issue wouldn't be around. They are the best by miles and cost f-all.
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NJCyclist
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by NJCyclist

ryanw wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:09 pm
This whole myth of tyres being impossible to seat is just BS. Everyone on this planet should only use Pedro's levers and then this issue wouldn't be around. They are the best by miles and cost f-all.
This isn't a myth, it's just luck of the draw regarding your particular wheel / tire interface. The first time I mounted tubeless (IRC onto Reynolds ATR), it seated immediately with a floor pump. I too thought seating problems were internet hype. Since then, I've experience infuriating seating problems with other tire / wheel combos even when using a compressor.
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ryanw
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by ryanw

But we're talking about punctures here... If you're suffering a puncture and the tyre won't reseat, then you're doing something very wrong... AND if using a tube, then it doesn't matter.

A tyre that has been on a rim for over a few days will have conformed to the rim profile and will reseat with ease.
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by Weenie


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NJCyclist
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by NJCyclist

ryanw wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:36 pm
But we're talking about punctures here... If you're suffering a puncture and the tyre won't reseat, then you're doing something very wrong... AND if using a tube, then it doesn't matter.

A tyre that has been on a rim for over a few days will have conformed to the rim profile and will reseat with ease.
Agreed, if you're using a tube, reseating isn't an issue. What might be an issue is getting the tire off the rim roadside to get the tube in.
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