Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
S6ED
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:22 pm

by S6ED

DaiD wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:49 am
Thanks for your kind comments guys :-).

I wouldn't have a clue regarding integrating the cables I'm afraid. Someone mentioned an FSA headset earlier in this thread that might help, and I'm sure solutions would be more easily found by going for the framset-only/buy a 105 SS and dismantle it approach.

It's a size 54, and it's a -17 degree, 120mm stem. I'll be changing it eventually for the same size but matching Zipp stem [this one's a Specialized, which actually adds another couple mm to the stack]

Clearance-wise, it's supposed to go up to 30mm, but I reckon it can go bigger [not that I'd run anything over 25mm, most likely]. The tyres are 23mm, stretched on those rims to 24.5mm and sit nicely just inside the width of the rim #aero! The 25mm it came with were actually nicer-feeling, and were stretched to 26.5mm.

Just had the DA cassette delivered - quickly weighed it at 208g including lockring. Took off the 105 cassette and that's 'only' 306g! So not quite as much saving as initially thought. He giveth with one hand and taketh away with another!
Looks good, enjoy!

What is the height (thickness) of this head tube top cap?
Is that a thin spacer between top cap and stem?

DaiD
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:01 pm

by DaiD

tarmackev wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:28 pm
calv1n wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:47 am
DaiD wrote:
floriansantana wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:27 pm


Show it to us! :o
I didn't want to before I had put everything on, but here's a couple [please don't give me jip for the rear tyre - I know! I'm putting it the right way round later :lol: ). Not sure how to put up photos - see if this works:
Nice as that is, how much benefit would one realise over this previous gen (6.3kg), say, in a solo 10 mile breakaway on rolling terrain. I ask because I love my current bike but would probably drop 5k if it made a real world difference. (Disk brake discussion aside)

Image
Thats what I'm struggling with also, its a tough choice. Real world riding a bet going from a similar 45mm to 50mm rim would make more difference, or even a jersey thats slightly better fitting.
I'm not sure if anyone in the world could give an exact answer to that question, and certainly not me! The wheels that came with it are in no way aero, they're only 35mm deep. But I've got 50mm wheels [currently on my winter bike - it's a bit Frankenstein that one] that I'm getting thru-axle end caps for, as they're currently QR. Then I'll likely use the 35mm wheels over the winter on the winter bike.

That supplied spacer is about 5mm. There's not a spacer above it - it's the way that Specialized stem came, as it's one of those ones that comes with shims to adjust the angle of it, so it's adding around a further 2mm that I don't need. The Zipp stem I'm going to get will sort that out. Cheers

by Weenie


Jugi
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi

calv1n wrote: Nice as that is, how much benefit would one realise over this previous gen (6.3kg), say, in a solo 10 mile breakaway on rolling terrain. I ask because I love my current bike but would probably drop 5k if it made a real world difference. (Disk brake discussion aside)
Most likely there is no benefit you would be able to quantify by yourself, especially in that 10 mile breakaway scenario. The slightest change in conditions would likely overcome any performance difference between the bikes.

But, as there are differences in geometry, I assume the 3gen provides a different kind of a ride. Every once in a while it's just nice to have something a bit different.

User avatar
Dan Gerous
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Looks really nice DaiD!

Regarding routing the derailleur cables through the front of the head tube, maybe using Nokon or other alloy linked housing would make it acceptably good, they tend to work better than regular housing when the bends are tighter...

S6ED
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:22 pm

by S6ED

DaiD wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:33 pm

That supplied spacer is about 5mm. There's not a spacer above it - it's the way that Specialized stem came, as it's one of those ones that comes with shims to adjust the angle of it, so it's adding around a further 2mm that I don't need. The Zipp stem I'm going to get will sort that out. Cheers
What is your saddle height (BB to top of saddle in the middle), if I may ask?

I'm asking in order to figure out which bike size would fit me, given that 51 is probably too small for me with 74cm saddle height.

DaiD
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:01 pm

by DaiD

S6ED wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:48 pm
DaiD wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:33 pm

That supplied spacer is about 5mm. There's not a spacer above it - it's the way that Specialized stem came, as it's one of those ones that comes with shims to adjust the angle of it, so it's adding around a further 2mm that I don't need. The Zipp stem I'm going to get will sort that out. Cheers
What is your saddle height (BB to top of saddle in the middle), if I may ask?

I'm asking in order to figure out which bike size would fit me, given that 51 is probably too small for me with 74cm saddle height.
Ha, what a coincidence, I've just had that question from @Mr A, but I can't PM cos I haven't done enough posts/not special enough :( !

Saddle height to top of saddle in line with seattube is 737, it would have normally been 740mm but it's a 172.5mm crank, rather than the 170mm I normally use. And there's 173mm of exposed seatpost to bottom of saddle rails.

Deliveries of the rotors and spanky carbon saddle confirmed for tomorrow :beerchug: !

S6ED
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:22 pm

by S6ED

DaiD wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:56 pm
S6ED wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:48 pm
DaiD wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:33 pm

That supplied spacer is about 5mm. There's not a spacer above it - it's the way that Specialized stem came, as it's one of those ones that comes with shims to adjust the angle of it, so it's adding around a further 2mm that I don't need. The Zipp stem I'm going to get will sort that out. Cheers
What is your saddle height (BB to top of saddle in the middle), if I may ask?

I'm asking in order to figure out which bike size would fit me, given that 51 is probably too small for me with 74cm saddle height.
Ha, what a coincidence, I've just had that question from @Mr A, but I can't PM cos I haven't done enough posts/not special enough :( !

Saddle height to top of saddle in line with seattube is 737, it would have normally been 740mm but it's a 172.5mm crank, rather than the 170mm I normally use. And there's 173mm of exposed seatpost to bottom of saddle rails.

Deliveries of the rotors and spanky carbon saddle confirmed for tomorrow :beerchug: !
Would size 51 be too small for you / for someone with 74cm saddle height?

At Sigma Sports they told me that BB to saddle rails for a 51 is 71cm with maxed seat post. Adding 3cm for the height of the saddle itself makes 74cm.
So a 51 would be big enough but maxed out.

DaiD
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:01 pm

by DaiD

S6ED wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:09 pm
DaiD wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:56 pm
S6ED wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:48 pm
DaiD wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:33 pm

That supplied spacer is about 5mm. There's not a spacer above it - it's the way that Specialized stem came, as it's one of those ones that comes with shims to adjust the angle of it, so it's adding around a further 2mm that I don't need. The Zipp stem I'm going to get will sort that out. Cheers
What is your saddle height (BB to top of saddle in the middle), if I may ask?

I'm asking in order to figure out which bike size would fit me, given that 51 is probably too small for me with 74cm saddle height.
Ha, what a coincidence, I've just had that question from @Mr A, but I can't PM cos I haven't done enough posts/not special enough :( !

Saddle height to top of saddle in line with seattube is 737, it would have normally been 740mm but it's a 172.5mm crank, rather than the 170mm I normally use. And there's 173mm of exposed seatpost to bottom of saddle rails.

Deliveries of the rotors and spanky carbon saddle confirmed for tomorrow :beerchug: !
Would size 51 be too small for you / for someone with 74cm saddle height?

At Sigma Sports they told me that BB to saddle rails for a 51 is 71cm with maxed seat post. Adding 3cm for the height of the saddle itself makes 74cm.
So a 51 would be big enough but maxed out.
For me I think it would be too small, as the reach is too short for me without going to a 130mm stem, which might be a little bit too slow steering, and I'd also need a couple of those spacers most likely. I'm 5'10", 32" inseam if it helps.

floriansantana
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:57 pm

by floriansantana

@DaiD:

Since you seem to be the go to guy regarding weight saving on the new SuperSix: What do you think is possible weight wise with a SRAM Etap 11-speed groupset?

I’m thinking of getting the 105 disc version, strip it down and rebuild it with a SRAM Etap HRD groupset.

I have Hunt 50 Disc wheels with Tubolito tubes and SRAM Centerline rotors which should save 250 to 300 grams in wheelset only.

What’s the weight of the cockpit? You said something about 300g for the handlebar only, right? You could probably save a lot of weight here, but I’m tending to still get an aero bar and not a lightweight classic bar. Maybe the Vision 5D integrated bar.

Do you know the weight of the Stock saddle?

Then I’ll probably change the seatpost as well and change the crankset to Rotor 3D+.

Rough calculation is:

8,23 kg for the bike with Ultegra minus at least 300g saving for the Sram Etap compared to the Ultegra. Then another 250-300 grams for the wheelset. About 100g for the saddle. Another 100g for the post, 100g for cockpit and other small stuff like spacers and about 100g for the crankset.

Makes around 7,3 kg for the bike without cages and pedals.

Does that sound realistic or am I missing something? Any other recommendations regarding weight savings?

Thanks in advance for your time. :)

Karvalo
Posts: 705
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Jugi wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:50 pm
calv1n wrote: Nice as that is, how much benefit would one realise over this previous gen (6.3kg), say, in a solo 10 mile breakaway on rolling terrain. I ask because I love my current bike but would probably drop 5k if it made a real world difference. (Disk brake discussion aside)
Most likely there is no benefit you would be able to quantify by yourself, especially in that 10 mile breakaway scenario. The slightest change in conditions would likely overcome any performance difference between the bikes.

But, as there are differences in geometry, I assume the 3gen provides a different kind of a ride. Every once in a while it's just nice to have something a bit different.
Yep, the geometry changed a little bit to G2 and a little bit to G3, might even have to downize in G3 to get the same drop! Otherwise the G3 will have a massively different ride quality. G1 is fairly harsh and seriously clearance limited compared to most modern all-round racers. If that matters.

S6ED
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:22 pm

by S6ED

Karvalo wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:08 pm
Jugi wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:50 pm
calv1n wrote: Nice as that is, how much benefit would one realise over this previous gen (6.3kg), say, in a solo 10 mile breakaway on rolling terrain. I ask because I love my current bike but would probably drop 5k if it made a real world difference. (Disk brake discussion aside)
Most likely there is no benefit you would be able to quantify by yourself, especially in that 10 mile breakaway scenario. The slightest change in conditions would likely overcome any performance difference between the bikes.

But, as there are differences in geometry, I assume the 3gen provides a different kind of a ride. Every once in a while it's just nice to have something a bit different.
Yep, the geometry changed a little bit to G2 and a little bit to G3, might even have to downize in G3 to get the same drop! Otherwise the G3 will have a massively different ride quality. G1 is fairly harsh and seriously clearance limited compared to most modern all-round racers. If that matters.
Indeed. For me the question is, how different is G3 to G2. Strictly speaking, I cannot replicate in G3 the position I have in my G2, given that I've fitted a totally slammed -20deg stem. Whatever I do, the new bike will have a bit higher stack. If I also consider that the -20 stem is not particularly attractive and a less extreme one would look nicer, then I would have to downsize (from 54 to 51) but then I would have to max the seatpost. Would that be bad? I don't know.

Karvalo
Posts: 705
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

The limit is the limit for a reason. If it wasn't OK the limit would be somewhere else.

Caveat: this may not be the case if you're 110kg, or otherwise approaching a stated weight limit. :P

S6ED
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:22 pm

by S6ED

Karvalo wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:44 pm
The limit is the limit for a reason. If it wasn't OK the limit would be somewhere else.

Caveat: this may not be the case if you're 110kg, or otherwise approaching a stated weight limit. :P
Not worried that the seatpost or other part will possibly fail, rather that having it maxed out is an indication that the overal size and geometry of the bike in this size is not meant for my body size.

I'm about 77kg, so no worries there :popcorn:

Discodan
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:55 am

by Discodan

floriansantana wrote:It's possible to route the shifting cables inside as some people have also done it with the SystemSix. Not sure about shifting quality though.
The challenge will be the stoppers for the cable outers, at the moment the entry ports at the top of the down tube have the stoppers but if you route it through the head tube you’ll lose that.

It’s not impossible but you’ll need to adapt the cap that covers the head-tube port from being just a hole that a di2 cable and hydro hose passes through to make it a secure mount for the outers. Can anyone comment on the material and solidness of the port cap?

Personally I’m leaning towards getting the 105 model, upgrading to Ultegra di2 with lightbike wheels and using a one-piece Metron or similar bar combo. That will end up being AUD3k less than getting the hi-mod Ui2 model (AUD10k in Australia) and will weigh less due to lighter bars and wheels

The bonus is I can then swing all of the 105 gear across to my gravel bike which is a nice ‘free’ upgrade


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by Weenie


Karvalo
Posts: 705
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

S6ED wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:22 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:44 pm
The limit is the limit for a reason. If it wasn't OK the limit would be somewhere else.

Caveat: this may not be the case if you're 110kg, or otherwise approaching a stated weight limit. :P
Not worried that the seatpost or other part will possibly fail, rather that having it maxed out is an indication that the overal size and geometry of the bike in this size is not meant for my body size.
Not really, because it depends on so many other factors, not least the simple size of the seatpost available. Just because a proprietary seatpost is kinda short, does that say anything else about the overall size of the bike? No. Can you easily achieve a saddle height of 74cm on literally any 51cm bike that uses conventional seatposts? Yes. So...

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